Questions for the Hebrew Israelite Brethren and Sisteren...

[newview]

Why are you guys of the Hebrew Israelite denomination so caught up in the flesh - OT, OT, OT. Have you guys ever been effected by that which is spiritual?

Do miracles ever happen amongst your congregants - like other wordly happenings - things that you can't explain and yet don't contradict the word of God?

Do you guys ever speak in tongues under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost? and if so Have they been interpretated and if so - what were a few of the messages?

Does the Lord ever give y'all visions? Daytime visions?

When there is sick among you - has your elders been called to anoint the sick with oil and pray for them and you see them miraculously healed?

Are there any-any-any white people in any of your congregations? or have there ever been any at one time but are now gone?

Do you guys believe in the resurrection of the dead?

Do you sing songs? If so - name at least 5.

Do you dance for joy in the Lord?

Are there any in your congregations who prophesy on things to come? - if so - please share a few.

When I read yall posts I often wonder if there is any joy and anything spiritual going on in your assemblies. It does not seem so, but there could be alot going on and you guys are just not sharing it with us.
And if your goal is to convert - you really need to step out and say something that the board can know or at least surmise that the God of Heaven steps out of Eternity and deals with your group(s).
I dont want it to seem that I am asking for a sign but I guess I am because the early church brought with their doctrine power and demonstration.

Otherwise - to me at least - it seems that what you brothers are sharing is stagnant.
And I say that out of love. I really enjoy scrapping with you guys over many of the subjects but when it gets down to business - outside of the OT - there is a dead pool effect going on.

Besides striving about the Law - share with the board how God deals with you guys mightily.

In Peace

[James Pierce]

Newview,

BHI's do not believe in Yeshua.

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

That is correct Brother James. Do you see how they come against us for doing the right thing believing in Yeshua, and keeping his commandments like he commanded us to do?

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

That's right. We say it is ok to keep the commandments, and you all make us look like we are evil for doing the right thing.

[Zealot X]

@newview
2) I do not doubt that you know scams are out there. I believe you are intelligent until you prove otherwise. You haven't proven otherwise. I brought up scams and coincendences because I want to make it clear that just because something happens, whether it happens amoung us, or whether it happens among you, that it isn't proof supporting the group.

Matthew 5:45 - That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

The problem with your series of questions and line of reasoning is that you're looking for proof that Israelites as a group are like your church and if not then you will not believe that they are credible spiritually because you want to see spiritual evidence. I've been in one congregation and not one us needed a miracle although most people had testimonies of fortuitous events in their lives. Would I call it miracles? Sure, I might. But I would never use someone elses testimony as evidence to what's going on in the group. We are to have a PERSONAL relationship with G-d. So while I understand your question you're looking for the wrong answer.

Matthew 16:4 - A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

If I tell you that, on my personal journey, I have been under spiritual attack, had visions, dreamed dreams, all of this... it is not because I am an Israelite. It is because I have a PERSONAL relationship with G-d and he is working with in, through me, and in me. He has ALWAYS been there but he doesn't wait until you in "the right group" to help you. Being an Israelite is not about being in the "right group" or the "right church". I have witnessed the supernatural up close and personal and have heard stories from others who have heard the same. YHWH helps us as we seek him and as we seek righteousness. He's not going to say, "oh no she is Christian. Oh no, she is a Muslim. Oh no, she is a Jew" and with hold his goodness. His love for us is not based on the condition that we deserve it or that we are "with the right people".

I cannot stand the mentality (not saying you have this) of those who cannot stand alone. Right now I am not a part of any local congregation of Israelites. Again... Israelite is a nationality. It doesn't mean you're saved and it doesn't mean you're lost. It's not a religion at all. Yisra'el had national beliefs and practices. It had sects. Not everyone shared the same interpretation and there were many who were in need of healing. Do you think Yeshua healed those of the same sect as him? He didn't even ask them what group they were with. So I want you to understand that each of us is subject to YHWH and not to a "church" organization of men. I think that's enough. Next question.

[Zealot X]

3) Before I respond further about this I want to tell you a short story of an experience that I had. I'll be quick.

I was attending a concert at my former Israelite congregation, an excellent group of Israelites with a great leader who I will always admire and respect. He and half the small congregation came out of a previous church that seemed to be... kind of teetering on the edge of Christianity called the House of God. It is probably for that reason that he called his congregation Beth Elohim. A House of God church came to visit one sabbath afternoon. (They were supposed to be there for worship but were late) We wear regular clothes to our meetings, t-shirts, jeans, etc. They wore suits and carried on just like many Christian churches. After they set up their equipment in our small church building (they came from NY and I guess our sound system wasn't enough) they had basically a second service in which they led out. Since we played host we basically had to stay for it.

What was remarkable to me was what I witnessed during their service. It followed a certain order. Someone would stand up to testify. They would start by saying and repeating "The devil is a liar!" And then they would give their testimony and it was a little "showy" for my taste but who am I to say how another person should express themselves. So I was like... okay. And then after the testimony they did a short dance. Even when I was a Christian my church was very conservative and amens were about all that ever disturbed the decorum. So when I saw that I was a little taken aback but... again... who am to think anything odd. Didn't David dance? So I was cool. And then the next person did it. Same thing. Then the next person. Same thing. Then children did it. SAME THING. At this point I'm like what is this? These people are PROGRAMMED!

When it comes to speaking in tongues its the same thing behind what others believe to be casting out demons. It all looks and feels very real. But it is because people know what to expect that they will act it out. Someone who doesn't have a demon will be told... "hey buddy, you got a demon on you!" and when its cast out their bodies react because their brain tells them how. I have witnessed a Christian church speak in tongues and I tell you I had to pinch myself so hard... I've never wanted to laugh so hard in my life but couldn't. Because it was complete gibberish. It wasn't remotely a language. ANY language. The gift of tongues recorded in the NT breaks down to 2 things.

1) The ability to speak in your own language and be heard in many different languages simultaneously.

2) The ability to be able to LEARN multiple languages. This ability is not supernatural.

Many think of tongues as supernatural thing that proves their church has the spirit. They have reduced it to a gimmick. Paul was basically saying that not everyone has the natural ability... or G-d given talent to teach and not everyone has the same talent to speak foreign languages. And understand... what I'm saying is known amongst many Christian churches so what I'm telling you is not "Israelite" doctrine against Christianity. Many denominations understand this. Paul could speak a few different languages be not every Israelite could. Some of the people he dealt with were multilingual and they would often pray in their own language which was FOREIGN to those in the congregation. So he was asking people to pray in the common language so that everyone could understand what was being said. This gift, just like music and art, can be used in ministry. But that doesn't make it a supernatural gimmick.

I don't know of ANY Israelites who speak in tongues because most of us either know or are educated that the gift of tongues is never gibberish sounding that has to be interpreted. There's nothing special about speaking in another language. The purpose of verbal communication is to be understood and to communicate ideas.

[Zealot X]

4) Well I've had dreams and visions involving occult symbolism and some that others have had also, including the upside down pyramid. But most of this stuff wouldn't have any meaning to you if you have never studied the occult. And when I say study... let me clarify. LOL before someone accuses me of witchcraft and tries to light a match under my chair. I was writing a book that involved the occult as a means of bringing demons into the world. A lot of the concepts are things that are actually true but I'll never really know the full extent of what I was shown. Now... this is what I was investigating at the time so... I think that's why. Others may have dreams and visions about other things depending on what they're into and how much YHWH desires to help them.

5) Well, number 1 I am not a member of a religion so I can only speak on the cases that I actually know about. There's no Israelite news channel either that updates us on everyone's health.

And some of us are actually vegans (I am not. I like chicken) as a way of getting back to the original plan. That does come with some health benefits. And this is true of anyone who chooses a more healthy diet so I wouldn't say that this only pertains to Israelites. There is a group in Dimona Israel (not a group that I support or endorse) that seem to be extremely healthy.

Of course changing your dietary habits is not a magic cure. If you lived an unhealthy lifestyle before you became an Israelite then you may still suffer consequences for it. I think there was one guy I heard of who died recently but I don't think I heard the cause. He was probably just old.

I don't have any problem with anointing the sick. I can't say if that's something other Israelites would choose to do or not since I've never really witnessed any serious illness first hand. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I just haven't seen it personally.

Thank you for the condolences. My father was a very good man. I don't think his (who is not my pastor) pastor thought he needed such a thing because it was never evident that he was seriously ill. He had an irregular heart beat but did not qualify for a pacemaker. No one really thought he was going to die soon.

As far as prayer goes I generally don't ask for much. I simply trust him to take care of me like he does everything else. I don't knock what others do, but I'm very conscious of my own development and responsibilities. I know that my Father wants me to grow up and not depend on him for everything but instead to live and let my life become the blessing for others and vice versa. Again... I'm not knocking anyone for the way they pray but if we would simply put into practice what the messiah taught we would all become the answer to prayer because we would take care of each other's needs. Too busy asking for things for ourselves and not busy enough doing things for others. Just my 2 cents.

[Zealot X]

6) Well.... this girl is someone who I JUST found out about and who I am very impressed by. What impresses me, maybe the most about her, is that she was able to ignore all the JUST CRAZY WACKY UNBELIEVABLY DISGUSTING HATE that comes out of the ICUPK (an Israelites cult because unfortunately we do have them and its not something we can control) and still learn from them and see that what they had to say about themselves was true to the extent that she herself could verify on her own. And I love the fact that she basically did her homework which is more than I can say for most. Now is she right about everything? I would say no, because she's still being influence by some misguided teachers. But did you see her apology to black people? I was stunned. My wife too. So I hope everything works out for her.

One of the things she was told by the UPKers is that she would only be a handmaiden in the new kingdom. That isn't true. Everyone who wants to follow YHWH can do so AS ISRAELITES. I have challenged some of these false doctrines myself that have been put out by the racist Israelites and you should check them out. I think they're truthful but also a little humorous. But they are VERY much all over the place on youtube and that's why far too many people think that they represent us. They don't. They're just loud, obnoxious, and use different tactics to attract members. The problem is that mainstream Israelites have not been taking them seriously. We laugh about them or whatever and then, because most Israelites aren't ONLINE like a few of us are, we get people posting videos of people from ICUPK, GMS, ICGJC, etc. as if that's us. It's not fair but what can you do?

I don't sit anywhere talking about how black people are G-d's chosen people. I think people put too much into that myself. Although I think its true I don't think it is what saves ANYONE. It is no replacement for a personal relationship with G-d. I don't believe YHWH is going to deny anyone from coming to him because they didn't know they were Israelites or didn't know who the descendants of Jacob actually are. This is something that I have even doubted myself at times but there are prophecies that really only apply to us and that have never happened to Europeans. But for me its all about righteousness and repentance. And when you fall you need forgiveness just like everyone else. I think what most people benefit from the most after becoming Israelites or coming into the knowledge that they are Israelites, is the higher standard. When you have a higher standard you make less excuses and you generally do better and attract better things. My wife's life is a better example than mine of kind of how much your life can change when you make the conscious decision to be righteous.

7) Most that I know of. I think the ressurrection is clearly something he taught. Hard to get around it. The sadducees also did not believe it. But if you look at the lifespan of Adam and even Noah... come on. Noah lived for 500 years before he had the children we know about. We cannot today even fathom living that long. Many would not even want to because they have a problem with aging. Aging is the problem. But who said we had to age? Even with sin. The earlier humans aged slower. This lets me know that our bodies were not designed to age and die. We were actually designed to be immortal. Immortality doesn't mean you can't die. It merely means that unless you are killed, poisoned, etc. your body will simply keep going. Because that was our original design I believe the righteous will be raised back into immortal bodies.

[Zealot X]

8) I cannot speak for all Israelites. There are Israelite groups that believe Yeshua/Yahshua is deity. There are some who believe he may not have been G-d but that he pre-existed before his coming. I personally do not believe he is G-d or a god. That's not who Israel thought the messiah was going to be. The whole concept of a messiah is someone who is chosen by going. The anointing is symbolic of that. G-d would not have to be anointed or sanctified. My main problem though is that YHWH himself has verbally, on more than one occasion, said that the is the only true G-d and then Yeshua says that YHWH is the only true G-d in John 17. But I wont go into it more than that. So I sung a song to Yeshua it would be as melek or king. As far as prayer, he never taught anyone to pray to him. And I can't find any example in the NT of anyone praying to him. I was taught, in Christianity to pray in his name/authority. I tend to do that more from habit, but if you read the prayer that he taught to his disciples I think that is the best pattern since its what he actually taught. Wouldn't you think so?

9) I have seen dancing. The first time was a girl who came up from another congregation and she performed a very "african" sort of dance that was very beautiful. When we went to passover there were a number of women who danced. Same thing. The style was very "African". And it was very uplifting to watch. It's hard to describe since I've never seen dancing before or since that made me feel like that.

services depend on the congregation. The moreh we had was very musical and so there would be a lot of sing, drum beating, etc. He was also an excellent teacher at the same time. But it wasn't so conventional. There was time for anyone to get up and read some poetry, read scriptures, give a short talk, or whatever. I definitely miss that. My wife and I are talking about starting a bible study group soon so we may get back to that again. But I would not be able to say enough about the quality of the services that I have witnessed. It was never a circus or something that was done for show or habit. It was always very... pure. And there was an atmosphere of love and peace and thankfulness to YHWH for all that he has done. Yeah.... I definitely miss the old congregation.

10) I think its hardest for those who give help to fathom being in need of it. Our pride gets in the way and we tell ourselves that there's no way we could be wrong. We're all just trying to help each other. That's how I see it. Some of the things people say are ridiculous or simply sounds ridiculous. And sometimes people don't really know how best to help or what to say in order to get their message across. We're only human. But I think what we should keep in mind is the intent to do good that is present no matter if you are Christian or Israelite. At the end of the day we should all help each other. Expose truth and error is one way. But there are others. When you find out certain things about this world... its like every cell of your body burns to tell other people. You feel like Neo and all of your family and friends are caught in the Matrix. You may forget that they need other things. All you can think about is the Matrix and showing them the code hidden behind the surface.

I can tell people a whole lot about how the Catholic church is the whore of Revelation, how she rode the beast (Rome) and how she had harlots for children. I can dizzy people with information showing that she is simply a reconstitution of ancient Babylon, the Empire seat of haSatan's power on earth and how the mark of the beast is or are the beliefs and practices of ancient Babylon. Which is why she is called Babylon. It is actually easy to see but people don't seem to care. They don't study. They don't research. They would rather have a nice happy Christmas than think it had something to do with the devil. In fact, their minds just vomit up any notion of any possibility that there is anyway that any of this stuff is possible. Or they just don't care. People will listen to Bob Marley all day long, no knowing that he was (like all rastafarians) an Israelite. And then they'll see racists boys on youtube that are nothing compared to Bob Marley and his message of univeral love and they'll think the racists are a fair representation of all "Black Hebrew Israelites". It's easier to believe such things. It's easier to believe that one's church is the answer and that all they have to do is go to church every week and believe in Jesus. I'm only interested in sharing what Yeshua taught. However, ultimately my mission is to fight against the demons and cults that produce them. I never thought I would ever end up going up against a cult of Israelites. But YHWH knew this and told me about 10 years before it happened. That's one of those personal prophecies I mentioned. It's hard to know if its real until it is fulfilled. I thought that it was just a character that I was creating. But YHWH has a way of using symbols and letting you figure it out when its time.

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

You need the Old and the New Testament to get the true understanding of the Bible.

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

You need the Old and the New Testament to get the true understanding of the Bible.

It's strange you are making this statement. If you really understood the NT, we wouldn't be having this debate.

When the OT Laws were in effect, there were conditions and penalties for breaking the Laws. Jesus fufilled the Laws by living it and then he took our place on the cross as a ransom for us knowing that we could not and will not ever be able to live out the Laws to the letter.

When Jesus fulfilled the Laws (both by living it and taking on the penalty that we actually deserve), He did not say we could just live anyway we please and not suffer the consequence. Keeping the Laws meant living it down to the letter and to break one iota of the Law meant suffereing the penalty which often was death.

Let's face it - none of us are living perfect lives, and yet we are still alive because of His grace and mercy.

Think about it some more - all of you law keepers would have died years ago if it was not for the grace and mercy of our Lord. You cannot tell me that you keep all of the laws to the letter because to keep the law is to keep it down to the jot and tittle and to break either would mean death.

So, explain to me - how is it that you are still alive after breaking some of the laws?

Peace in Jesus

[James Pierce]

Chaplain,

I can answer that question. Yeshua became the curse of the Torah for us. We are under grace now. There's no condemnation to those who are in Yeshua. In order for grace to be a reality, then there must be a Torah in effect. If one who is in Yeshua, breaks the Sabbath, he/she does not get stoned, but of course, they must repent, and keep the Sabbath. They receive grace.

So, why do we not receive penalty for breaking the Torah? It is because Yeshua became the curse of the Torah for us. Does this mean we are lay aside the Torah and live as our flesh desires? Or course not! We are to still observe the Torah, for observing it is our proof that we love Him. Paul said in 1 Corin 7:19 that keeping the commandment of Yah is what matters, and not who's Hebrew and who's Gentile.

Question for you, Chaplain. If we do not need to keep the Torah, yet Yeshua will judge us by the Torah(Matt 7:21-23), then wouldn't you say that you are misunderstanding the scripture?

[newview]

"....Paul said in 1 Corin 7:19 that keeping the commandment of Yah is what matters, and not who's Hebrew and who's Gentile..."

Why do you call yourselves Hebrew? as if it mattered.