Questions for the Hebrew Israelite Brethren and Sisteren...

[newview]

Why are you guys of the Hebrew Israelite denomination so caught up in the flesh - OT, OT, OT. Have you guys ever been effected by that which is spiritual?

Do miracles ever happen amongst your congregants - like other wordly happenings - things that you can't explain and yet don't contradict the word of God?

Do you guys ever speak in tongues under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost? and if so Have they been interpretated and if so - what were a few of the messages?

Does the Lord ever give y'all visions? Daytime visions?

When there is sick among you - has your elders been called to anoint the sick with oil and pray for them and you see them miraculously healed?

Are there any-any-any white people in any of your congregations? or have there ever been any at one time but are now gone?

Do you guys believe in the resurrection of the dead?

Do you sing songs? If so - name at least 5.

Do you dance for joy in the Lord?

Are there any in your congregations who prophesy on things to come? - if so - please share a few.

When I read yall posts I often wonder if there is any joy and anything spiritual going on in your assemblies. It does not seem so, but there could be alot going on and you guys are just not sharing it with us.
And if your goal is to convert - you really need to step out and say something that the board can know or at least surmise that the God of Heaven steps out of Eternity and deals with your group(s).
I dont want it to seem that I am asking for a sign but I guess I am because the early church brought with their doctrine power and demonstration.

Otherwise - to me at least - it seems that what you brothers are sharing is stagnant.
And I say that out of love. I really enjoy scrapping with you guys over many of the subjects but when it gets down to business - outside of the OT - there is a dead pool effect going on.

Besides striving about the Law - share with the board how God deals with you guys mightily.

In Peace

[Zealot X]

Well Anthony, I agree with you that the truth cannot be refuted but first we must make sure what we have is truth. If it can be refuted then it wasn't true to start with. So let us test whether or not your assertion is true.

Your whole assertion seems to be predicated on the writings of Paul. Paul was an executioner. It was his duty to carry out the judgment of the law. If he had to put you to death for your sin then obviously you could not repent. Yeshua tells a parable about grace that we must understand in order to fully grasp what Paul is saying. And I'll try to keep my answer as "New Testament" as possible so that you understand that this is not OT vs NT.

Go to Matthew 18 and I can show you how the messiah understood grace.

23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

The wages of sin is not all your earthly possessions. The wages of sin is death. You cannot pay this debt and go on living. This servant was "in debt". The king was impressed to be gracious towards the man because he begged on his knees for patience and said that he would pay what he owed. This is grace. The king had no law in place that he MUST forgive this man. He only did it because he was moved with compassion. Now how moved with compassion do you think he would have been if the servant borrowed more money and was like "yeah... because you're so gracious (the first time) I'm going to borrow a whole lot more money and not pay you back" Does the king have "sucker" tatoo'd on his forehead? Let's finish the story.

28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

He did the same thing he did but unlike the king he had no compassion and so his servant received no mercy.

30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

And there it is. Yeshua never once in this story said that the debt turned into free money just because the king was gracious and merciful with his judgment. Whether he has mercy or not doesn't mean the law changes by which he judges. It doesn't change the fact that sin is sin. Yeshua is saying that we need to forgive each other so that we are forgiven. But if you think what you're doing is not sin in the first place then when are you ever falling on your knees and asking for patience. When both servants said "I will pay all" that meant that they were willing to make right what they had done. This was their willingness to REPENT. The king does not have grace in order to allow people to rebel against the very laws that grace prevented them from being executed. Not even trying to keep the law is not even taking advantage of grace. It is simply rebellion and there is no parable dealing with YHWH being gracious towards a rebel. And even in this parable, the trespasses of the wicked servant come back on him in full. So if the Father does not forgive you then your sin will remain. It's not that grace ever meant the law changed. It was simply a means by which breaking the law could be forgiven without you meeting up with Saul the executioner. So when we do sin we have an advocate. But don't expect him to advocate for you if you have no desire to "pay all", when you refuse to even acknowledge the "debt" and when you decide to continue in it.


Grace isn't lawlessness. Grace is the underserved favor that you get that is willing to spare you even though you didn't deserve it. YHWH has ALWAYS been gracious. That is why there was a sacrificial law in the first place.

[Zealot X]

Mr. Watson, you have the wrong law. Please refer to my thread on the truth about Galations.

todah

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

What is the description of Love in the Bible Trevor? If you read those scriptures I put down you will see what God's definition of love is.

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

If we are not under the Torah at all, then humans are now free to murder, have sex with animals, do incest, consult spirits, cut ourselves for the sake of the dead, etc etc. Am I right?

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

Brother Trevor

Can you explain why it has keep the commandments so many times in the old and new testaments.

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

Bro.Watson,

The Moral Law (Ten Commandments) is the revealed will of God as to human conduct, binding on all men to the end of time. It was promulgated at Sinai. It is perfect (Ps. 19:7), perpetual (Matt. 5:17, 18), holy (Rom. 7:12), good, spiritual (14), and exceeding broad (Ps. 119:96). Although binding on all, we are not under it as a covenant of works (Gal. 3:17). (See COMMANDMENTS �T0000871.)

This covenant is abrogated under the gospel, inasmuch as Christ has fulfilled all its conditions on behalf of his people, and now offers salvation on the condition of faith. It is still in force, however, as it rests on the immutable justice of God, and is binding on all who have not fled to Christ and accepted his righteousness.

Therefore the Ten Commandments was reiterated in the Great Commandment given by Jesus (Matt. 22:35-40). The 1st great commandment covers the first 4 commandments of the Ten Commandments which deals with our relationship to God. The 2nd commandment covers the remaining 6 commandments of the Ten Commandments which deals with our relationship to mankind.

Peace in Jesus

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

Bro. Watson,

I appreciate your patience and teaching of the Word, and I am fully aware and convinced that you are not "entagled (entailed?) under a schoolmaster."

So, what you are saying is that the Ten Commandments were nailed to the Cross, and therefore, I do not have to concern myself with whether or not I worship other gods, or commit adultery, or kill a person (although the laws of the land prohibits killing a person), etc., because I am under Grace and therefore, I will not suffer the penalty of death (physical or separation from God).

As for the Sabbath, it was my understanding that our Sunday worship services was a type of Sabbath - setting aside a day of coming together as a unified body of believers.

Dietary and Cleanliness Laws = the principles of eating foods that are good for the body verses consuming any and all animals and fowls in any manner. The practical notion of cleanliness seems to make sense when you look at the principle of the Cleanliness Laws.

Why would God not want us to keep our bodies healthy and clean. If it were not so, then what you are saying is that because we are under Grace, we can freely eat whatever animals and birds we choose if it pleases the pallets. And, why bother with treating bodily orders or discharges, forbidden sexual practices during the woman's monthly cycle, contagious skin diseases, etc., since we are under Grace. Because to be concerned with these issues is to be keeping the law - am I correct thus far?

As for the Festivals - they were a shadow of things to come; they were cultural laws specifically for the nation of Israel.

Peace in Jesus

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

None of you will answer this for me.

The book says Jesus was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights. Get 3 days and 3 nights from Good Friday Evening to Easter Sunday morning, and I will believe that we are not under the Moral laws anymore. I am sure you all will just by pass this question. You never answer real questions, you all just protect a lie because you don't want to admit that you believed lie your whole lives. I admitted it to myself. I was taught from a child a big lie, but I found the truth, and now learn and teach it.

[James Pierce]

Anthony,

Who is the Messiah... Paul or Yeshua? If Paul said eat what you will, and Yeshua said eat Torah approved foods, then who is to be adhered to? Paul or Yeshua?

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

Bro. Watson,

For the upteenth time, I am fully aware of living under grace and I stand by this truth.

My question to you is very simple, if you're willing to answer it. Since the Ten Commandments were fulfilled or nailed to the cross as you previously stated, then why are there so many NT scriptures that addresses adultery, fornication, murderers, false teachings, etc.

The Ten Commandments represent the Moral Law and required strict obedience, otherwise there would be punishment for disobeying these commandments. This was considered works; which we know cannot save. So, it was the works that were nailed to the cross. If moral living was abolished, then there would be no need for Paul to address it in his letters as he did on many occasions.

For some reason, you seem to be against the foundational principles of moral living because you keep nailing it to the cross. This also tells me that maybe you see grace as a blanket over immoral behavior. God forbid!

Since I am free in Christ, I can eat whatever I want to eat, as long as it doesn't serve as a stumbling block for someone else.

You are correct in that you are free in Christ to eat whatever you want; even if it kills you; just as long as it doesn't serve as a stumbling block for someone else.

Peace in Jesus

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

This referring to the animal sacrifice law. You do not read Mr. Watson. You stay with your own belief. You don't read to find the truth. You read to try to find loopholes to continue to serve sin. If you are not keeping the commandments, you are worshiping another God, as well as serving sin. Sin is transgression of the Law.What is sin to you Mr. Watson?

I am sure I won't get a reply. Every time I back you in the corner and force you to only go by the scriptures with my questions, you don't reply.

[James Pierce]

Anthony,

If this is the case, then Charles Manson is going to heaven when he dies, because he is not bound to the judgement of the Torah.