Sabbath or Sunday

[Mark H. Stevens, Th.D]

Believers have every right to worship on the Sabbath and they should if they are convinced that is the right thing to do. However, if any member of any church were to require a person to worship on the Sabbath as a sign of "true" Christianity or "true" redemption, then that is wrong. According to Rom. 14:1-12, we are free.

Additionally, Sunday is the day that the Lord Jesus rose from the dead. The Jewish people who had rejected Jesus continued to worship on Saturday, the Sabbath. But it was the Christians who celebrated Jesus' resurrection and this was most probably the driving force to gather on the first day of the week.

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

Matthew 12:38-40 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Daniel 9:26-27 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Matthew 28:1-6 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men. And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.


Let's get 3 days and 3 nights.

It said in Daniel that Jesus would die in the midst of the week. That would be wednesday right before sundown. and he would be raised on the Sabbath right before sundown.

Wednesday:Night 1/2
Thrusday: day/Night 1
Friday: day/ Night 1
Saturday: day 1/2 And rose in the Evening right before Sundown

Let's try the tradition.

Good Friday: Night 1/2
Saturday :day/night 1
Easter Sunday Morning he rose

Day and a half. Does not fit, and is a lie simple as that.

[A.W. Bowman]

Brother Ben Israel - While I can agree with your conclusion, may I assist in strengthening the argument?

First, the system of time notations, i.e., weeks, as used in the book of Danial refers to years, not to literal weeks of a year.

See Rashi's Commentary on Danial 9:24

Seventy weeks [of years] have been decreed upon your people and upon the city of your Sanctuary to terminate the transgression and to end sin, and to expiate iniquity, and to bring eternal righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. [JB]
כד.
----------------------------
Commentary:

Seventy weeks [of years] have been decreed: on Jerusalem from the day of the first destruction in the days of Zedekiah until it will be [destroyed] the second time:

To terminate the transgression and to end sin: so that Israel should receive their complete retribution in the exile of Titus and his subjugation, in order that their transgressions should terminate, their sins should end, and their iniquities should be expiated, in order to bring upon them eternal righteousness and to anoint upon them (sic) the Holy of Holies: the Ark, the altars, and the holy vessels, which they will bring to them through the king Messiah. The number of seven weeks is four hundred and ninety years. The Babylonian exile was seventy [years] and the Second Temple stood four hundred and twenty [years].

Of course, Rashi was no friend of the church, so he interpreted Messianic scriptures in light of (made it fit in to) Jewish history. Even so, he did understanding the Tanakh Hebrew language methods of denoting extended periods of time.

As to days: Next year, Erev Pesach (the eve of Passover) falls on sundown, Sunday night , March 28, 2010. Yet, as it has for well over the 2,000 year mark, Erev Pesach will fall of the 14th of Nissan, A weekly lunar seventh day Sabbath. The first day of Passover then falls on the 15th of Nissan (the first day of the lunar week) and the second day of Passover falls on the 16th of Nissan, concurrent with day one of the Omer (first day of the week of the seven weeks of the Omer). Also remember to reckon the days from sunset to sun set, and that any event that takes place during the daylight hours is consider to have been accomplished 'in that day'. For example, Jesus had to be buried before sundown on the 13th day of Nissan (counts as day 1) before the start of the Sabbath. Day 2 starts as sundown and ends at the following sundown (Passover, day 2 (night and a day). The next 'first day' occurs on the 16th of Nissan (night and day), the first day of the first week of the Omer (day 3, night and day). Bringing to conclusion the resurrection of Christ sometime between sun set and sun rise on the 16th of Nissan.

In 2010, the so-called Easter celebration takes place on Wednesday, March 31 (Pasach 2, Day one of the Omer). This event also translates into our 'Passover Sunday' starting at sundown, Tuesday, May 18 (6th of Sivan 5770)

It was the continued moving of this date from year to year, according to the Hebrew lunar calendar, that prompted Emperor Constantine to throw out the Hebrew observances, change their names and fix their dates to the Roman solar calendar (circa 325 CE). It was about 350 when Hillel II developed a Jewish calendar that could be tied to the Roman calendar. Please note: Both the Hebrew calendars and the Roman calendars changed several times both before and after the advent of Christ. This makes translating dates and times between today and the distant past a very difficult task.

I realize that the explanation is very short, but I hope it helps to put some of these events in perspective.

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

Are we all in one accord that the Sabbath is the Lord's Day, and Sunday is the Sun's Day?

[A.W. Bowman]

Brother Watson -

Those are two very interesting and even wonderful passages that have been selected out of the scriptures. Would you please share your interpretation and understanding (commentary) on them?

Include things such as -

- In each case, who was Paul addressing (Jew, Gentile, other)?

- In each case, why did he think it necessary to approach these subjects (what needed correction)?

- What results did he expect his words to have on the lives of these people (what changes in life style did he hope to see)?

- How are these two passages relate to one another (the unifying theme or subject matter)?

- How were Paul's admonishments to these two groups of people reflected in his own life in the faith (pointing to examples of how Paul practiced what he preached/taught)?

Etc.(Other related items, such as clarifying the meaning/application of the words and phrases included in these scriptures)

I am sure that such an offering will be beneficial to everyone reading this thread. And, thank you!

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

I thought you was a Preacher.

[A.W. Bowman]

Brother Watson -

I am a teacher who sometimes preach. Yet, I have never grown so knowledgeable as to out grow further instruction/correction, or to be opened up to other view points and alternate understanding of scripture. In the process of studying another's point of view, I sometimes gain a deeper understanding of what our God has intended for mankind to grasp - and to put into practice. Your comments would not be rejected out of hand by me simply because I think we might view some scriptures differently.

It has been about 2,000 years since Jesus walked on this earth, and we, as a people, have yet to master his teaching, much less that of His disciples, such as Paul, Peter and James. Even so, what I have come to realize is that most of us, yes me included, read, study and interpret scripture from a 2,000 year separation from the history, culture, language, and religion of the authors, and have overlaid those holy words with western style culture, history, language and religion.Thereby altering much of the meaning, purpose, and the application of God's word.

Yet, the marvel of the Holy Word is that even when we fail to fully grasp or understand everything the is contained within it, there is still the power of salvation and the open door of an intimate relationship with God. Sometimes, even in spite of our best human efforts. A true wonder of God's love and mercy.

One of the major fall out of our wester world view is that one who obeys the commandments of Christ (and few know what those commandments are), are often branded as 'law keepers', which signifies that they have abandoned God's grace for a salvation (seeking the approval of God) by works, i.e., through obeying the Law. I will admit that there are some who have shipwrecked their faith on seeking such a course. However, the majority seek to follow after the precepts of the commandments for two reasons.

First, because Jesus said, "If you love me, obey me." Jesus is the living word of God - all of the word. Second, The Law (the ordinances written in stone (not the Ten Commandments, as sometimes thought to be referenced here), but rather those 'laws' which are the ordinances and statutes of the Law (Instructions) that contain the judgments against man that were nailed to His cross.

So, what we generally find are those who follow as much as they can God's instructions for living a life that is wholly pleasing to Him. Even so, this is the role of grace, when we fail in keeping the instructions of God, rather than receiving our just judgment under that law (the curse of the law, which is death), we can appeal to our father - face to face, with Jesus Christ as our mediator, for the setting aside of our transgression of the law (defined in scripture as being sin). For without the Law, grace has no role or place in a Christian's life.

Therefore, rather than following the Law to gain one's salvation or even God's favor, the law is followed a far as it is possible for a fallen man to do so, out of love and obedience to the word of God. For the fault with the old Covenant was not in the covenant, but with man - and that is still the weakness with the New Covenant. But, this time God built in an escape valve - He sent the perfect one to obey the law perfectly, and it is one this bases Jesus became the acceptable sacrifice for our failures, and the giving of the Holy Spirit to reside in our hearts and minds, so that we might learn the deeper meanings of the written word. (See Mt 5, 6 & 7) The purpose bing to learn what it is and what it means to 'walk with God'.

A study worth undertaking - for those who might be interested is such a thing - is to find that in Paul's personal life, he did not give up one single thing that was "Jewish" in order to become an Apostle of Jesus Christ. And, neither did Jesus or any of His other Apostles. Now that we have been grafted into the root of Jesse, the tribe of Judea, and adopted into the house of David, should we not also abide by the customs of our new family?

A final note: The controversy and contention over what laws the Gentiles should and should not observe was based on the desired requirement by some Jews that all Gentiles become converted to the Jewish faith and obey all of the laws of Moses 'in order to become saved'. This man made rule, like so many such "good intended religious" rules in today's churches, are the true fence laws - keeping people away from Jesus, rather than bringing them into a saving relationship with Him.

I apologize for the length. I know I should have broken it up into segments. But, if these are those who are interested in further study, make a copy and paste this missive into a word processor, and then search the scriptures to see if what I have said is so.

[newview]

Bravo, Brother Bowman! Bravo indeed!!!

Sometimes we throw the baby out with the bathwater in the name of grace.
But God is preparing His bride - she will be ready. The church will be ready.

[Zealot X]

wow.... Brother Bowman.... a man of great knowledge and wisdom. Thank you for the lesson. That was an excellent display of your teaching ability.

Shalom

[Zealot X]

I believe this is true "if they are convinced that is the right thing to do". Most people will not be convinced if pastors are teaching them that its wrong or that this is what freedom in "Jesus Christ" means; that you don't have to keep the commandments even though the keeping of the commandments is something that doesn't stop being taught. James clearly taught it. And Yeshua said:

Matthew 5:19 - Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

What commandments was he talking about? The sabbath is not a sign of true Christianity. It is a sign of true love for YHWH, the creator. We are free? Free not to love each other? Free not to love G-d? What is this "freedom"? America is a "free country" that has rules very similar to the country it came from. The only difference is who is in power and who makes those rules. Why would anyone rebel against my Father? Why would anyone seek new rules? Why continue to eat the fruit when you know that the way of man ends in destruction?

Additionally.... so what? Did Yeshua rise and ask you to celebrate that day? The [REAL] reason you celebrate that day is because of the SUN-rise, not the Son's rise. December 25th. The sun is risen. The sun is risen. And you're celebrating the birth of the pagan sun god. The excuse is that he rose from the dead on this day. Do you know what Israelites called sunday? "The first day". It had nothing to do with sunworship until Rome got involved. And they were not having weekly meetings only on sundays until Rome got involved. The fact is over looked that Yeshua rested on SABBATH; in life and in death.

People were gathered on the first day often because it was the first day they could actually WORK and do things that weren't appropriate to do on SABBATH (like collect money/food for a famine). If the missionaries were RESTING on sabbath that might mean that they waited to TRAVEL until AFTER the sabbath which means they probably arrived at many destinations on the first day of the week. And once they arrived they would have been guests in someones house and they would have broken bread (eaten) together. Also, because they were travelling missionaries they weren't just missionaries one day a week. The preached althroughout the week. But specifically on sabbaths was when people gathered to hear the scriptures being read.

Acts 13:27 - For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

Acts 15:21 - For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Acts 18:4 - And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Why did they call this day the sabbath as opposed to the "seventh day"?

IT IS BECAUSE THEY WERE STILL KEEPING IT.

You can gather on ANY DAY YOU CHOOSE. But you have no authority to "set apart" a day for worship.


shalom

[Zealot X]

Let's see if Yeshua agrees that there are no more sabbaths after his death.

Hopefully we can agree that Matthew 24 contain prophetic events that would happen AFTER the death and ressurrection of the messiah; AFTER Christian tradition claims the law was nailed to the cross. Let's read with understanding and with an open mind.

Matthew 24
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

I submit to you that this would be impossible. Your flight would NEVER be on the sabbath day if there ARE NO SABBATH days. For this to be a warning about a time after the cruxifiction the sabbath would have to still be in effect. Plus consider the audience of who he's talking to. Is he talking to Jewish people who don't accept the messiah? Or is he talking to his own followers?

Is he talking to you?


shalom