But what is your take on what would have happened if the prodigal son or anyone who had received salvation backslides by rejecting the Father, His Son, the Holy Ghost and totally turned away from the faith and DIED without having repented or had the opportunity to return to the fold. Would that person be heading for hell or heaven? This is a conversation that came up with a couple of my work colleague when we were in an after discussion on Luke 15:11-32 so I would be interested in having a discussion and receiving everyone's point of view.
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Are you saying that we can be as disobedient as we want even after belieiving in Jesus and and getting baptized. You mean I can backslide and lie and cheat and fornicate and stab folk all I want - right up til I die and STILL be saved?
to Newview...the issue is a lack of wisdom in the meaning of Salvation;
If your Jewish you would say: What are you being saved from,... YOURSELF???
As the only thing a Jewish student is taught from the womb is how to contain the Yetzer harah or in English,... the Evil inclination - within you and me -all the same.
Actually the woman can become more evil if the Male is dominate within her. the simlar paradox is with Older men when the EGOism declines as the Yetzer declines..and WE see more humility.
NO you cannot Cheat or lie or any of the abominable transgressions to another human being...WHY?
Because WE are all one SOUL from One Creator...therefore WE are all one from the One and that deserves our best deeds and actions to one another to be of utmost paramount in degrees of Salvation,... if I can use that term for you.
Simply your are either living a life of Torah and Mitzvot (=Bible learning and good deeds to others)...or you are a dead person unfit to grace the ShekinahLife of Adonai...which is freely given to those who love G-d with all their heart and mind through adhesion with the Creator,
That is the meaning of Love thy L-rd G-d ( Adon Elohim) with all'... that WE possess.
Love thy neighbor as thyself ... Love thy friend as thyself'
I can tell you a person with a lot of understanding, of which I do not doubt.
We all have been blessed with many things and some different understandings as we are all different although have some commonalities.
I can honestly say for myself and cannot answer for anyone else but I like Paul have found there is nothing good in me except for Him.
I also have found that it is really impossible to love G-d on our own. In fact I can testify that it is G-d that shows us love so we can show others love.
I have also found that most try to do the best they know how. I mean lets be honest, only a damned fool gets up in the morning and declares the world in general that they are going to do whatever they can to screw things up? It does happen, but for the most part those that seek G-d learn over a period of time which is what our testimony is all about.
Here are the facts that I know them to be. No one does everything right and no one does enough. Further facts are is that some 13,000 people each day starve to death, because the body of Christ does not accept the responsibility to fix it. That is a sin on us all that we will have to deal with. That may sound offensive, but given that the body of Christ has already been given all power and authority in heaven and earth in the absence of the Groom, then it is only the body of Christ that has the ability to get anything fixed. You see the governments or groups or others do not have the authority to fix the problems, only the body of Christ can, but that takes an act of love to fix it. How it can be fixed is by whatever we agree to and touch anything in His name, will be done.
There are a lot of great teachings out there, but the danger of all the teachings is that the more we know, the more we become responsible for. Wisdom tells me that there probably should be more things worked on and less teaching and preaching? Some teaching and preaching is a good thing, but it also takes the five fold gift ministry for people to come to maturity, so it is not just learning, but doing it His way, which takes us back to Cain and Able.
One thing I find that is rather impressive is when people actually use their real names. Then again?
So because we fear accountability we should not seek more knowledge and understanding? IF God grants you the knowledge and understanding believe that he will provide you the power to obey and therefore being held accountable will not be a fear. I highly doubt that wisdom told you that. Wisdom teaches us to seek God by any means. What do you mean by there should be more things "worked on" and less teaching and preaching. Sounds like knew age stuff to me. The preaching of the Gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing. I agree that all the gifts of God are at work in the Body of his Son and they are all for the perfecting of the saints. We cannot neglect ANY. I know there is a temptation to get emotional when looking around the world and seeing the atrocities happening but we MUST do ourselves what the Word says and lean not to our own understanding. Become responsible sister. Dont let yourself become complacent because you fear being held responsible for what you know. That is a selfish stance. Someone may need that knowledge you fear being held accountable for. If he is in you and working through you then ALL of you is good. A Bad tree CANNOT bear good fruits. I have also found that when men try the "best they know how" they fail and it is not acceptable to God to "try the best i know how" God says "Do it my way or perish" I choose to believe his report and preach the same to others. I would never tell someone "just do the best you know how"when referring to the things of God. His commandments are not burdensome and those who seek him shall find him for he is not a God afar off.
Trying to be offensive? Become responsible? I think I am already there. I mean that is not only critical and judgmental, but offensive, not true and not accurate, which all by the way is a SIN! I know that you believe that you are above such things, by the way you write. By the way with all the knowledge you have obtained, do you understand that if you offend me you also offend God? Really you should think of those things?
I somehow thought that this was for those in ministry? If they are in ministry then they probably are actually doing something unless you know differently?
Always good to get to know the people before hurling accusations. Get to know if they are doing everything they know to do and more. Maybe walk in their shoes for a while?
What do you feel responsible for? Prayerfully with all of that I will expect to see starvation on the decrease? That would be responsible.
Always a good idea that if your going to be critical, then probably you should be critical with yourself first? Just a thought, but one thing is for sure, judging and being critical is the opposite of love. Work with people show them how to do better. Really.
Did Christ ever offend or Judge anyone? By their words or actions? Are you accusing him of sin? I was not trying to be offensive just telling the truth. Which you did not respond to any point i made. Just god offended and responded form emotions.
How could you be telling the truth? You know nothing about me. Your guessing and then making statements, but your missing the point.
If you know things, then you should be supportive of all people instead of trying to put down people. You are supposed to be a minister or be in ministry, helping those go forward, willing to work with others, not be critical. The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, not critical, judgement and unfriendly?
Yes you were trying to be offensive. When you justify why you do what you do instead of apologizing, that is offensive and then by the talk about scripture in error. Jesus got on people that picked on others, because we all are goofy including yourself and the truth is you can't blast at people if your just as goofy as they are.
If this is your question, then here is your answer from me at least, "So because we fear accountability we should not seek more knowledge and understanding?" Absolutely unless you have real serious plans to follow through. Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
Your points were accusatory not even taking the time to get to know who I am or what I do and the ministries I work. Asking a question is asking a question and assuming things is not asking questions, but being judgmental.
I am sure you have not learned this, but you only can tell people what to do if you are over them and if God is a servant even to the servant and if you are a servant then you do not have a right to either judge people nor have a right to tell a person what to do. If someone asks you for help, if that is what your offering and that person was led to you, then sure walk with the person, seek God and Intercede for the person and help them get over whatever it is they need to overcome. That is what Jesus does for people and if you are supposed to be like Jesus then that is what you should do as well. It is the same for me or anyone else.
If you have particular problems with a particular teaching, feel free to share it, but then give some sort of reason why you have a problem with that teaching. I checked and one of the disadvantages to this site is that there is no room on a persons profile to explain or share with others as to what they do or what they have been called to do. It would have give some background as to who the person is.
But the point is even if you were called to be an apostle, then love should be the key in reaching people. You can either seek God about it and follow though or continue being judgmental and critical, but you are supposed to be like God and have His attributes. You see there are a few people here that do have a personal relationship not only with Jesus, our Father and His Spirit which really should be our Spirit as well if we are really dead in Him, but the ones that have that type of personal relationship know how they operate and all are kind and gentle.
By the way I was not having PMS and was not being offended. I said you were being offensive. I mean really do you talk to God this way? Probably not, but the bigger truth is if you talk to me the way you do, you are not putting me down but God.
...Anyone can do the Commandments Mitzvots...they just have to want to....also there is a higher reality to the ancient writings that refer to roots and branches,...and those who have eyes to see...stay within those attributes of the Creator.
When WE speak of wisdom...at what level?
There is the still-inanimate, vegetative and animate and speaking levels to Creation. As we know it.
And humanity for the most part is to ascend to higher levels generation to generation...From wisdom to greater wisdom
That is the meaning of 'Teach a child in the way they should go'...In the ways of the Light of Torah(so they will not be degraded by the worlds harlotry)
As you so well stated -"God is not afar off"
No in fact He is as close as you want Him to be,... in fact He is the essence within you and me all the same.
WE are one humanity, only the perceptions WE were taught keep us divided.
Shalom to you as well brother/or sister.
There is a saying "If one says they have labored and found, Believe them ...
A cute story :The Torah on One Foot
The Talmud in tractate Shabbos 31a relates the following well-known story of Hillel:
"On another occasion it happened that a certain heathen came before Shammai and said to him, "Make me a proselyte, on the condition that you teach me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot."
Thereupon he chased him away with the builder's cubit that was in his hand.
When he came before R.Hillel, (he also asked Hillel to teach him the entire Torah while standing on one foot) Hillel replied, "What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor: that is the whole Torah while the rest is commentary; go and learn it."
This is all WE need to learn...for now'
That is exactly what it sounds like she is saying. Sounds like a person trying to use Christ name as a license to sin. SMH
You said disobedience will not seperate you from God? That is a lie sister. With all due respect you are speaking 100% contrary to the Word of God . Isaiah 59:2 says "But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear" Has God changed? No. Iniquity STILL separates man from God whether you want to believe it or not it is the common theme in scripture and to teach against it is to teach error.