Torah vs Prophets vs Yahushua & Gospels vs Paul

[James Pierce]

All of these agree that Torah is still in effect, and we must obey Torah. Why is it that Christianity rejects Torah, when the earliest Church, including the Apostles, kept Torah?

[Pastor valentine]

1 Corinthians 14:40 Let all things be done Decently and in Order [ORDER}

Revelation 12:7 -9 There was a war in heaven [War betweeb God and satan}

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

What does this mean?

[Anna]

To my antinomian Brothers:

I must commend James, this young brother here, his knowledge is far beyond his years.
What have your reloigious teachers taught you. Don't you know thay the Hebrew term for the "law" that is written in the heart of the New Covenant believers is the TORAH # H 8451

Jer 31:31 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law (H 8451 towrah) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
~~~~~

Also, don't forget Malachi, the last prophet in the "Old Testament" with a prophetic word directed at the end of our age saying, to "REMEMBER THE LAW (TORAH) OF MOSES"

Mal 4:4 Remember ye the law (torah # H8451) of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the statutes and judgments.

Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

Mal 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

~~~~~~~~~
Matt.5:19 (Messiah speaking)

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Acts 24:14 - Paul

But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers,
***believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:***

1 Cor. 7:19 - Paul
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, *but the keeping of the commandments of God.*

Rev. 14:12 -
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that *keep the commandments of God*, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev. 22:14
Blessed are they that *do his commandments*, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


So my brothers, it it the *Torah* which was given to Moses from YHWH, that the prophets confirmed, our Messiah taught and the Apostles (and Paul) proclaimed throughout the NT.

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

That is exactly what you are doing Brother Watson. You are sleeping. The Lord poured out upon you a deep sleep because you harden your heart, and won't take hold of the covenant.

[James Pierce]

Anthony,

This scripture is true with you, Trevor, and Mark, and many other deceived enemies of Yah and His Torah. Isaiah 6:9-10,"Go, and say to this people: You will listen by listening, but you will not understand, and looking you will look, but you will not perceive. For this people's heart has grown fat, and with their ears they have heard heavily, and they have shut their eyes so that they might not see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn----and I would heal them." < Take heed to this word, and repent of your anti-Torah heart.

Yahushua says this in Matt 7:23,"And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness." The Greek used for "lawlessness" is anomian, and in its original lexical form, it is anomia. This word means 1) the condition of without Torah 1a) because ignorant of it(the Torah) 1b) because of violating it(The Torah) 2 contempt and violation of Torah, iniquity, wickedness.

Do you think Yahushua will not tell Torah haters to depart from Him? Anthony, do you want to find out when you stand before the Messiah? Repent, sir, and RETURN. Why did Israel go into captivity? Because of their Torah violation. Why did Yah give Israel a certificate of divorce? Because of their Torah violation. Why did 70ad happen?

Not only because Yahushua prophecied it, but also because of their Torah breakings. If you do not believe me, then read Deut 28, and you will see the consequences of His people breaking His Torah. Yahushua went deeper and refered to eternal destruction! Why will the wicked go to the lake of fire? Because they have not repented of their Torah breakings, and turn to Yahushua for salvation.

Why will Anthony, Trevor, Mark, and all other Torah hater go to the lake of fire? Because you have not repented of your Torah breakings, and you have not committed to keeping Torah like the Messiah kept it. You claim to want to be like the Messiah, well WALK AS HE WALKED, otherwise you are a hardcore hypocrite, posing as a Messiah follower, but you keep not the father's Torah. I am not condemning none of you, rather, I am warning you of the potential danger and consequence of not obeying Yah.

Shalom

[Anna]

Watson:
Re your repetedly answering with "zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzs".
You are hilarious!
You are actually saying "I have read your response, and Wow, I don't have an answer!
Your replies are childish, and expose the fact that you can't reply intelligently, to our questions.

Since you can't reply intelligently, why reply at all and show your lack of knowledge and lack of skill in rightly dividing the word of truth?
l

[James Pierce]

Anna,

That is right, yet he will readily say that you and I do not have answers.. What a complete hypocrite! May Yahuah give Him grace!

[A.W. Bowman]

It is unfortunate the perhaps these are some would would teach that once you have repented of your sins and did all that was necessary to 'be saved', it has become impossible to commit another sin. Or, perhaps that once Jesus ascended to heaven, or perhaps after the day of Pentecost mankind no longer is being held accountable for their sins.

Another permissible teaching now also becomes:

To love God is no longer important. Murder is OK. Adultery becomes an acceptable pastime, and one who steals the most steals the best. Blasphemy of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is now an acceptable Christian sport. And, the list goes on and on. In short, Except for a few Pauline rules concerning how one should dress, we are now free of the Law of God given through the hands of the prophets of old. The letters written by Paul and a few other Apostles contain many mistakes that those writers never got around to correcting. Any rules or requirements for living a life acceptable to God now becomes whatever the local pastor says they are.

This is the expected results when the foundational teaching of God is dismissed as irrelevant and/or is no longer applied..

For, without the law, sin is not imputed unto man. (Romans 5:13)

Without the law, there is no place for, or a need for grace. (Romans 5:20)

The Apostles must have made a colossal mistake, along with the elders of the church in Jerusalem (even the Holy Ghost) when they sent a letter to the Gentiles (Acts 15) requiring four areas of obedience to both the written and oral Torah, containing moral, dietary and ceremonial laws that required several folks from Jerusalem and much time to explain and teach to the churches.

Sin and grace, and by extension, faith, love and obedience to Christ are all done away with, and we all now have a free pass to heaven. My friends, we cannot preach against against sin when sin no longer exists in any meaningful way!

Now for the hard question: Is there anyone here who will publicly embrace the above picture? I pray not. But, one can no longer appeal to a law that no longer exists as justification or support for a sermon. For when the authority of the law has been removed, it is no longer a valid witness and it has no standing. (Romans 3:4 & Revelation 20:12).

When presenting any doctrine, all of the scripture that pertains to that teaching must be considered, accommodated, and integrated. What I have pointed out here is that simply saying we are no longer under the law, is to miss much of what Jesus and his disciples taught. It also invalidates most of the O.T. It is a covert attempt to get out from being held accountable for ones actions before God.

This kind of teaching is an example of those who would be teachers of the law, but not knowing (understanding) what it is they are teaching (1 Timothy 1:7). Many preachers really do not understand the Law of God, or even the terms that are used in its application, e.g., commandments, laws, ordinances, statutes, instructions, etc. and what it was that Jesus actually nailed to His cross.

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This submission is not made to refute any doctrine presented or suggested on this thread concerning the validity or the application of God's law. Rather, the purpose is to point out the incompleteness of those doctrines - and the paths of spiritual error that are most likely to result from attempting to live according to their precepts.

Remember, if it were not for the law, no one would know what sin is. Without the law, grace is a meanless term. Without the law, we would be missing much of the revelation of who and what God truly is.

Question: When an O.T. Jew says, "It is written in stone." What is he communicating?

[James Pierce]

A.W

Yes!

[newview]

Amen.
Jesus had no problem with the law - He drew from the law.

[A.W. Bowman]

Even so, the debate rages on.

A challenge has been given to rebut a number of assertions.

Personally, I do not like to engage in these kinds of exchanges because most often they are either counterproductive, or they serve only as a method of furthering dividing the brethren. However, it is only when we will come together and 'reason together', and allow the process of iron to sharpen iron (generates a little friction and heat, but not dents and bents).

So, with no desire to add to the fray, I will attempt to show where some correction to all of our thinking is required. To this end, I will take only one paragraph from one post to examine.

I will upload the page as a word file..

.

[A.W. Bowman]

Is there a role of the Mt. Sinai law in the life of a professing Christian? The answer is, yes.If one uses the law lawfully! (1 Timothy 1:8). However, most Gentiles have not been trained in the study of the Law of God given through Mosses and why (how) Jesus and His disciples viewed that law and how (and why) they observed it - even Paul.

This forum is not conducive to presenting a study, so I will only comment to the challenge concerning one paragraph of doctrine that stands apposed to Pauls instructions concerning the application of the Law to the New Covenant church.

The study on the Law of God that I am currently undertaking is almost complete. I will post a link to it when it is finished. It can then be reviewed, studied, and examined for its content and accuracy in reflecting the biblical view of the written word.

May this small contribution be a blessing and not a stumbling block.