What define a person as a Jew instead of a Gentile or vice versa?

Today we have so much time being consumed in our world about who is Jewish and who is not.  I would like to invite all especially those who consider themselves to be Jewish to define what makes a person Jewish.  And in case someone says because Abraham was jewish I want a definition of what makes Abraham Jewish instead of a gentile.  I would like this discussion to be civilized and in an orderly fashion, this is a fact finding mission that will hopefully clear up any mis conception or confusion into who is who.

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Hi Sister Angela,

WOW, what a great question, it's really loaded. I would love to talk with you via phone about it. It's just so much to share over the the internet. There is wealth of information in the Word to help you get a greater understanding. Please contact me at 877-241-2100 ext 0 and let's midrash (discsuss the scripture in hebrew).

Prophetess Sonya
Well Sonya the question is really quite simple what define a Jew I dont want history I want to know what factor define a Jew. Really what I am asking is what does it matter if I consider myself a Jew or not when both Gentile and Jew have the opportunity to get to the Kingdom so I dont need to phone you if you know respond in writing. But dont give me a load od History that dont answer the question put it simple.
Ok, well there were 12 sons of Jacob (Genesis 46:8-28), son of Isaac, son of Abraham and his name was name Judah. Short and simply the Southern Kingdom (House of Judah) was composed of Judah, Benjamin and half of the tribe of Levi, the Northern Kingdom ( House of Israel or Ephriam) were the other 10 scattered tribes. The largest tribe in the Southern Kingdom was the tribe of Judah, hence why they are called Jews short for Judah. It has nothing to do with their ethicity but with them being chosen to served the one true God Elohim. Now the history is very relevant but this is a short and simply answer and yes you are right there is neither Jew nor Gentile according to Gal 3:28-29 but we are all one in Yeshua. But we are not yet one, according to Jeremiah 31:31-33 and Hebrew 8:8-10, God is regathering the ten lost tribes (I Kings 11:9-15) and bring us back to God's ways...His Torah (His Guidance and Instruction). In Ezekiel 37:15-22. we see the Prophet Ezekiel being instructed by God to prophetically demostrate the gathering of the two houses. A Gentile is simply this in the hebrew it means one who is "confused, paganistic and without God", the Southern Kingdom though they went into captivity for a season came back to God, however the Northern Kingdom were scattered and left God. Now we all have been there, but God has redeem us and called us righteous (declared innocent with God) we are in Christ...no longer confused or without God. I hope this is not too much, blessing.
Well Sonya if what you said is correct then anyone who is in Christ is a Jew so what is the big deal with all the email from Black Hebraic believers saying I should know I am the truth Jew. You see where I am going if we are walking in Christ it does not matter whether we are Jew or not. I wonder how many of these people would be so eager to say they are the true Jew at the time the Jews were being persecuted
Hi Angela, during the whole discussion I thought I was talking with you until I realized it was a brother name Kieth. Now my responsed to your reply. I have been studying under a Jewish Christian if I can call him that and he being a Jew is convinced that we are part of the 10 lost tribe of Israel and I believe it. Now keep in mind they are called Jew which is short for Judah ok, they are God's chosen people not for any other reason than Abraham chose to serve Elohim when all other nations (Gentiles) served pagan gods. Are there black Jews, absolutely just type in black Jews in the search engine in googles...Igbo tribe, the Black Ethiopia Jews. And you and I could possibly be from the Southern Tribe which would make us Jewish, but I believe we are for sure Hebrews. But at the end of the day we are all going to be one in Christ as the scriptures have read, blessing my sister in Christ!
4 of those were sons of whores they dont count go study hebrew law...
there are only 8 tribes therein lies the bribe...or bride...
8 tribes...thats the the lie that kills the order of jesus ---
8 not 12...
in order to be in full be possessed of the holy spirit (not matter ur physical state) the nature and matter of Deus becomes our nature---
and then the entire world is revealed any gods goad goal or agenda---
its seen and known...thus and such us the power of the hebrew GOD deus...
tell u what or any one what prove the existence of 12 pure hebrew tribes based on the KVJ...
and i will e think my belief (not)---
serious though its 8 tribes go study and show urself approved...
jkn8
I will try to answer.

These are the gentiles:

Gen 10:1 KJV - Now these [are] the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.

Gen 10:2 KJV - The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

Gen 10:3 KJV - And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.

Gen 10:4 KJV - And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.

Gen 10:5 KJV - By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

Notice that the family of Ham is not referred to as gentiles.

The term jew was a Roman catch all phrase for the people of the nation of Israel. It was taken from the hebrew word Yehudah. The romans shortened it to jew and called all the people who were worshipers of Father YAH, Jews.

Now keep in mind what matters is who follows Father YAH according to Deut 6:5 and accepting YAHshua as your saviour.

Short answer hope it helps.
Yes, Yehudah is the hebrew name for Judah (Jews). Sounds like you already have the answer for the most part, we are on the same page. As I stated a Gentile means, one who is without God, pagan and confused. The Jews were serving Yahweh (Duet 6:4-6) and any other nation that didn't serve Him was called a Gentile. Please share why you emphasis Ham as not being referred to as a gentile?
Good,

Yes look at the verses I quoted. The definition of gentile (heb goyim = nations). Gentiles were the descendants of Japheth and not of Ham. Just trying to be accurate. I do not believe gentile = one witthout Father YAH. But I may be wrong.

Done purely for accuracy and truth. So anyone who believes he is a son of Ham or Shem is not a gentile.

Gen 10:1 KJV - Now these [are] the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.

Gen 10:2 KJV - The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.

Gen 10:3 KJV - And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.

Gen 10:4 KJV - And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.

Gen 10:5 KJV - By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations

Do you see what I am saying? sincerely.
Ok this is good, give me a minute to do a little research. I love to discuss the Word, when we do it in the right spirit, God breath new revelation on us.
Ok, let me start by saying the word "Gentile" seems to be the issue at hand, correct me if I am wrong. The question you raised is "anyone who believed he is a son of Ham or Shem is not a gentile" I am not clear on what conclusion you are trying to reach here. From my understand and study, anyone who doesn't serve God is a Gentile. Ok the word Gentile ( means nation, a nation of what...of people who do not serve Yahweh). The division in the land had to do with their relationship as a family, language also play a part. In addition Shem is is the great grandfather of Abram, who was choose because Shem was blessed by Noah directly because he held the moral standard of Yahweh. Hence the forth runner of (Genesis 11:26) Abram, Isaac and Jacob as the people (Jews) who God chose to restablish moral order, in the the earth after the fall of Adam from Godly relationship, from His kingship and Priestly position.

The overall difference between a Jew and a Gentile is who they serve. If they both trust in the Lordship of Christ they are one, there is no difference (Gal 3:28-20). One of the relatives of Ham was (Genesis 10:8) Nimrod...he was a pagan worshipper, he incited men to rebel against Yahweh, he build the Tower of Babel hence the division of the nations and the language which I feel is playing a great part in this discussion. Understanding what the Word is saying depends a lot on understand the original language of God and the culture which we all know is Hebrew. Anyway the more I study the original language and culture the more I understand I missed it and I'm just now understanding God original intend after 18 years.
Genesis (bereshit) defines who a gentile is. It has nothing to do with whom someone serves. The definition of gentile is as stated in Ge 10:1-5.

A hebrew, gentile, son of ham, son of japheth, son of japheth can serve whomever they choose Josh 24:15.

Righteousness and unrighteousness (keeping or not keeping the law) defines who you serve. Being a gentile has nothing to do with whom you serve.

People who consider themselves sons of ham should not say they are gentiles. For Father YAH did not define them as such only Japheths line. Most people who consider themselves Hamites do not know this.

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