When There is No Law, There is No Sin

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

If there is no law, there is no Sin. Sin is transgression of the law. So, if sin is transgression of the law, we don't have to keep the Law because Jesus did it all, then I can steal, kill, lie, fornicate, commit adultery as long as I don't get caught. I can do Sunday because we don't have to keep the Sabbath because Jesus did it all. I can worship any Gods I want to because we don't have to keep the law. Jesus did it all.

1John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1John 5:1-3 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

James 2:8-12 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Matthew 5:19-20 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Romans 3:29-31 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 6:1-4 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 7:7-13 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

All these scriptures mean nothing because Jesus did it all right?

We don't have to listen to these scriptures, there is no need to keep the law.

I mean really. Listen at how that sounds.

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

Hezekiah,

STOP THIS MADNESS OF USING SCRIPTURE LIKE A LOADED GUN FOR NAME CALLING.

Isaiah 56:10-11 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

I am sorry that the truth hurts.

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

The truth that I am a Christian does not hurt. Your name calling is disrespectful. Some of us may say a lot of things, mockery, etc., but name calling of this type is definitely not one of them.

If you refer to me one more time as a "dumb dog" I will remove you from my list of friends on my BPN page and end all future dialogues PERIOD!

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

I am not calling names. If you don't consider yourself apart of that scripture, why are you addressing it? You don't believe we are to keep the commandments right?

I have post a lot more scripture, and you didn't have an issue? Why now? I didn't write that scripture. It is in the Bible.

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

Hezekiah,

You are using this scripture like a loaded gun. After all, why use this particular scripture in your opposing comments? You have posted many scriptures to prove your point and none of them made references to name calling as this one. You could have chosen many other scriptures to get your point across but you purposely used this one because of the description.

You didn't use this scripture for the purpose of addressing leaders who were/are using their position for their own greed. How is our dialogue of the Word using our leadership positions for greed. I don't profit anything from what I post here. So, do not insult my intelligence with your weak excuse of trying to speak what thus saith the Lord, especially when you're using it out of context. I/WE AM/ARE NOT DUMB BY ANY STRETCH OF YOUR IMAGINATION!

[BruthaPharoah]

You saidThe Law or the Comanments cannot make one holy or give soul salvation.We live in the Despensation of Grace
the LORD said-Leviticus 19
1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am holy.
3Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God.
4Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I am the LORD your God.

looks like he's saying keep the commandments and be holy !

Leviticus 11:44
For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Looks like he saying keep the deitary law and be holy
the scripture hold your instructions in righteousness

[Zealot X]

Hezekiah, thank you, in all seriousness and sincerity, thank you for posting 1 John 2:4. 1 John has grown to be my favorite book of the bible for all the truth it reveals. You can never go wrong in 1 John. It should also be noted here that Hezekiah is posting exclusively from the NT. It seems to me that there is a tradition in Christianity that has gone back since before black people were even Christians that has taught people to think that the disciples didn't believe in keeping the commandments. That is simply not true. Let me quote something else from 1 John 3. Favorite book. Favorite chapter.

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

He was manifested to take away our sins. Hold on. Our SINS? Or our guilt for all the sins we continue to do? Isn't it odd how we are told to believe that "Jesus" came to put an end to the Father's harsh punishment so that you can keep on doing things that otherwise you would have been punished for? He came so that you can be a free but still be a criminal. Really? I skipped over verse 3 but that's important too. If you have hope in the messiah then you will PURIFY yourself EVEN ("just as") as he is pure. So if you believe that Yeshua did not sin, did not break the law (the only law that was around at the time...or after... ) then that same purity is something you should strive to accomplish in your own life. Instead people want to change the definitions of what's pure. Do you realize that when you think that the law of YHWH isn't necessary you are making a judgment against him? He didn't give these laws just to play with us. The law is to perfect us and return us to the paradise home in the garden. Don't say its not necessary. Don't say you don't want to do it because its stupid. Whether you can see how useful it is or not it isn't even about that. Think about the original sin. People today are complaining because we have a standard of righteousness that involves keeping shabbat. You would think that we were asking for the donation of both kidneys. The defensiveness that people have when you're asking them TO CHANGE (because really... that's the key issue. You're asking for people to change and they don't want to) is incredible. And then suddenly they're finding fault in the law and judging it.

But have we forgotten how YHWH told Adam and Eve not eat the fruit? It's no wonder why Eve sinned! We're still strutting around with the exact same mentality and attitude that Eve had when she ate the fruit. The mistake I see so many people making is that they think that they need to see how the law equates to them being moral people because they have their own standard and understanding of morality that they think the law needs to support. No, you need to support the law. When we make ourselves the lawgiver we are standing in the shoes of G-d, like Eve, making ourselves equal with G-d as if we are gods. If you take your own authority over that of the "MOST HIGH" then essentially what you're saying is that you're just a lil bit higher.... than the MOST HIGH. You are the "More Higher". We don't make the rules. We just live by them. Those who do not are called rebels and lawless. It should be clear to all know know of the messiah that he came and showed us how to be perfect, how to overcome sin. He didn't show us this according to some fuzzy new standard that wasn't even fleshed out before the discples came along and before Paul came along. His example was how to keep the law of G-d. There was no new law. It doesn't help anyone if he is an example that you're not even supposed to follow. He would not be your messiah if he doesn't teach you how to overcome sin. Sin is what the bible happens to be dealing with.

[Zealot X]

Torah was given as a reaction to sin. If Yah saw two men humping and thought it was disgusting then he told his people not to do that. It's an abomination. If he saw people in agony because of infidelity then that's why he would make a law against adultery. So what would make us think that the law COULD be done away with? The law is a commentary on the human experience. It's not suddenly okay for two men to hump each other. It's not suddenly okay to let a homeless man borrow money by taking his outer coat as collateral. It's not suddenly okay to lie on someone. These things weren't okay a billion years before humans thought to do them. And they will not be okay in another billion years. Why? Because they are just not okay. There is a principle of love that they conflict with; that they were ALWAYS in conflict with. There were things that YHWH wanted people do on a temporary basis BECAUSE of sin. That's where you get into the sacrificial law. But there is nothing temporary about thou shalt not commit murder. You will never find just cause to commit murder. The moment you think you have is the moment you've gone insane.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of G-d was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of G-d doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of G-d. 10 In this the children of G-d are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of G-d, neither he that loveth not his brother. 11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

What were the "works of the devil" that Yeshua came to destroy? And how did he do it? A lot of people are caught up with the afterlife and life and death and they want to know what's going to happen to them after they die. But salvation is not about saving you from death. If if was then you wouldn't die at all. But even though you believe you still die. Death is only a... symptom of sin. It's the final stage of the disease. But before you even get there... look at the world around you. People live in fear. People suffer at the hands of other people. Death is almost a blessing to those who have really gone down the path of wickedness. That's why a lot of people commit suicide; because they're more afraid of THIS LIFE than they are of death. Isn't that something? What makes this life so terrifying that people would want to kill themselves to escape it? It's sin. It's the thing people want to do but don't want done to them. Sin. That's the virus that Yeshua came to cure. And we're all carriers of it. But this is what haSatan has built on this planet. The only way to destroy his works is to destroy sin...not death. YHWH doesn't consider all of his creations his children, only those who LOVE HIM enough to OBEY him. We show our love through our obedience. If you think his laws are flawed then you think he doesn't know what's best for you because this is what he gave us. I would submit that we do not know what is best for ourselves which is why Adam and his wife ate that fruit when they were told what the end result would be. And there is no transition between 1 John talking about sin and talking about love. And we were told to love each other from the beginning. What does Yeshua say about the law in Mark 12?

28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Yeshua answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; YHWH our elohim is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love YHWH thy G-d with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. 32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one G-d; and there is none other but he: 33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

cont'd

[Zealot X]

This scribe was on point. But this scribe was a student of the law. Both these men were speaking from their understanding of the law. Did you know that when Yeshua said this he was quoting Torah? Deuteronomy 6? Moreover, the scribe added something that Yeshua did not but Yeshua knew he was right. What did he add?

"is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices"

This is HUGE! If you don't understand how huge this is then you're not a student of the law. He is basically saying that it is is better to obey than to sacrifice. Do you think YHWH wants you saying "Jesus paid for me" every time you sin, over and over, the same sins? Do not be deceived. The Israelites did the same thing with animal sacrifice and YHWH let them know that he was sick of it because they weren't being obedient. They were just putting everything off on the sacrifice. They weren't changing. Their characters were remaining the same. And that's not the purpose of the sacrifice for you to sit there and stay the way you are. You must repent. Repent means to turn away from sin back to YHWH. It doesn't mean recognize that you're a sinner and keep doing it or cut down on the amount of laws you're actually responsible for to make it easier on yourself. And the sacrificial system was always symbolic of Yeshua. So basically they were doing the same thing (when they were dead wrong) as modern Christians by continuing in sin but offering their sacrifice for it as if it was just a debt that they could pay. And its not something you can pay. The wages of sin is death. YHWH accepting something other than your death is letting you get off the hook. But he only lets you get off the hook so that you can change and the sacrifice just shows how serious you are about changing. But if it looks like you're not serious about changing then you are simply guilty and rightfully deserving of your reward.

1 John 3
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Yeshua haMashiach, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

In Mark 12 Yeshua and the scribe agreed that love was what the law was all about. The law simply gave guidelines on how to love. Paul talked about how the gentiles were naturally keeping parts of the law. He didn't say this was bad. That was good. But they weren't righteous or perfect just because they knew SOMETHING about love. We can all keep from doing something bad to each other. But they weren't done. They needed more. So what I hope that I can add to this ongoing discussion is proving that Yeshua was in fact the "LIVING WORD". He was the living Torah. He taught us in deed what the law taught us in word. But the fact is that there is no possible way one can separate keeping the law from believing in Yeshua. You can't believe in Yeshua without keeping the commandments of G-d.



shalom

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

These are excellent Points!!!!!!! Great, Great Posts Brother Zealot!!!!!

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

No. I acknowledge the "TRUTH" when I see it.

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

Zealot X,

This is the kind of teaching I so admire. You post scripture and give in depth explanation/interpretation.

Of course, this will be added to my collection of study notes. :-)

Peace,