Women preachers - Yea or Nay?

[Eemah Martha aka Hephzybah]

This question was asked in a forum earlier today and Brother James answered as follows:

Paul never, in a universal way, ordered all women of all time to not preach. It was the situation in the city of Timothy that Paul said his statements.

In 1 Corin 11, where women were told to keep silent, Paul was not saying that to all women or all time. The situation was that women were causing lots of confusion about many different things, and Paul ordered that they shut up, and ask their husbands things at home.

If God calls women to his ministry, which he has, and is still doing, then no one has the right to say they cannot preach, especially if they do not understand the historical context of scripture.

My follow up question is does this explain women apostles and pastors today as well?

[James Pierce]

It explains the women Pastors, and gives them freedom to preach, but it does not explain female Apostles. Paul himself had female Apostles with him on his missions(Romans 16). The word Apostle, in Greek, is Apostolos, which means "to send". Those verses don't have any bearing on Apostles.

Be blessed,
James

[Eemah Martha aka Hephzybah]

Todah for this clarification and for the Scripture...Romans 16. I was searching for the scripture on Apostle Junia. Excellent resources in Romans, chapter 16.

[Senior Apostle Cauline [ETAMA]]

One of the things that we are taught is not to take any word of God out or context. The scripture in 1 Corin 11 has been taken out of context even when the teaching of Bible History makes it clear, just as you have re-iterated here, why Apostle Paul even wrote these words. YHWH is not a respecter of persons and our Lord came and taught us to use all our gifts and talents to edifying the body of believers. Personally I am called to the office of Apostle and in all cases will obey God and not please man concerning the calling upon my life and the gives YHWH has permitted me to have and use for His glory! So I say SHINE THAT LIGHT!

[Eemah Martha aka Hephzybah]

Blessings Apostle, recently I wondered why the title apostle has become such a frequent title amonst believing leaders. Then Ruwach led me to understand that much is being restored as part of the restoration quest of the Remnant of Yah. As Brother James explained there are many excellent examples of women Apostles in scripture. My question is where is there an example of a woman pastor in Scriptures? This I had been seeking- in either Torah, Tanak, or Renewed Covenant. I am even searching in the non-cannonized scriptures for this example.

[Senior Apostle Cauline [ETAMA]]

Grace & Peace Mother Hephzivah. What Ruwach has said is indeed true concerning apostles but nevertheless we must test the spirit in all cases, for not all are what they think or say they are. What interests me most is why you are seeking an example of a women pastor in Scriptures and even why you would expect to find any? The New Testament charts the course of the apostles, those sent to plant the early church throughout the occupied earth. It does not focus on the ministry of the pastor in the way that you seek. The Epistles/Letters written by some of the apostles served primarily to direct and correct those churches planted through their own apostolic ministries. As I pondered further your question concerning female pastors, this is what the spirit of the Lord revealed to me. "Their churches were in their homes" and then led me to 1Co 16:19 The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house. Now, though it is not proven that Aquila and Priscilla though female were pastors, there is not proof they were not, no one else is mentioned. Then the spirit of the Lord reminded me "Not all is written in the book!" Now that's another story because we know the consequence for any that would disobey YHWH in terms of what is recorded. This is not conclusive proof however I pray that this helps...

[Eemah Martha aka Hephzybah]

Todah, Apostle - Ishah of Wisdom... Your teachings are a blessing. It helps me to think at a higher level. Truly... thank you!

[Luctricia Stevenson]

I saw this topic and wanted to post a reply. I have been seeing this topic come around and around so many times. We debate and debate and debate. God called me to ministry , he qualified me for service and to preach. I accept what he has done and I am walking in MY calling. I am after so many years tired of trying to explain myself and my calling, so I am deciding to stop. I have been over the same scriptures over and over, I have had the same scriptures thrown at me over and over. It's time to stop. To me there are many larger fish to fry. People are dying every day and going to hell. Why? We are arguing over wheather or not women should carry the word. The enemy is very successfully using gender to further seperate us (the church). If we are arguing about who can or can not carry the word, we can't look at all the false doctrine, fake teachers, and the other things that we really should be rooting out. These are the things that are really tearing the church apart. Every day there is another scandal and another pastor falling from grace. In 2009 I am not arguing about my calling anymore. Yea or Nay? Do what God has called you to do, stay on the path that he has put you on, and be obedient to the call!!!


Be blessed!!!

[James Pierce]

It is true that many on here are constantly debating. Sometimes, it calls for it. There is so much false doctrine out here, that false doctrine itself is tearing the church apart. People live by what they believe, and its crucial that their beliefs are true, and inline with the word.

[Eemah Martha aka Hephzybah]

Blessings Sister Lucricia,
I have truly recieved your message. I do agree the time we spend bickering on topics such as this, someone at least one of us could have visited someone in the prison, or help to bring a misquided teenager to truth. Our people are perishing for lack of knowledge and most of us spend more time on these networks ministering to one another. Even when we see someone on the network needing prayer and ministering, we ignore her.

There is a sister on my network who is crying for deliverance and I was the only one to pray for her. This sister was clearing in bondage of the enemy. I appealed for others to bless her with a word of encouragement but I noticed that people prefer to minister to those who are already in the realm of salvation. Will Abba punish us because a sister pastored, healed the sick, preached the word? Abba said in His Word,,,, we will be abandoned because we abandoned Him ( We did not visit the imprisoned nor feed the hungry nor gave drink to the thirsty, Now, I love my Hebraic heritage and praise Yah for bringing me to Truths; however, I do not see the annointing here as I experienced as a Pentecostal. I think it is because we are putting all of our energy in study and debating and forgetting our Great Commission.

44 Then shall they also answer, saying, Master, when saw we thee hungry, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not unto one of these least, ye did it not unto me.

46 And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.
( Matthew 31)

So thank you for your wisdom. Shabbat Shalom!

[Eemah Martha aka Hephzybah]

Blessings Family,
I must mention one new encounter in the Word that is most uplifting in both Spirit and in Truths... Wisdom and in Knowledge. That is a teaching on Hebrew Mind VS Greek Mind. A study in the difference of cultures. This teaching will begin to free some of us from legalisms of what we must or must not wear or do or be. It was the Greek mentality that influence our scriptures with differences in women. Be careful that we do not confuse discipline with legalism. Remember, even the Hebrews became scattered because of creating traditions that Abba did not command. I study deeply the commands of Abba and I lean heavily on the Gospel of Matthew, Mark , Luke, and John because of this... And of course the Apocrypha books that were left out. The Apocrypha books speaks much on the role of men, women, and children richly and it does not limit anyone's service to Abba. Notice that this is only done with Sha'ul whose own culture in embedded in Greek and Roman philosophy. This I believe caused confusion with men covering or not covering in worship. What I find amazing is that Sha'ul's teachings are obeyed by the Hebrews when it comes to women's limitations but ignored when it comes to men's limitations... such as do not cover your head or be the husband of one wife.

These are things I am noticing as I study Greek vs Hebrew Mindsets. If I am to go back to my Hebraic heritage, I must do so in Ruwach and Emet (Spirit and Truth). I say this because, as we pray and study and become closer to Abba, Ruwach (Spirit ) will lead us to restrain from, refrain from, and abandon certain behaviors and it will also have us adopt new ones (ie. covering our head, for some not wearing pants, what we eat or do not eat, etc. etc.).. Currently, I have abandoned all meats for this season of prayer that I am going through. I do this only because of how I am being lead by Ruwach. I want Abba's Word and Wisdom to be my meat. I was lead to not just cover my head during this season but to cover with tallit while in prayer and scripture study. Again, this is my leading by Ruwach. I do not believe and Abba's Ruwach HaKoDesh is revealing to me that these things are not commands but services to His Honor. We must be careful when Ruwach leads us not to assume it is a command for others. I believe women covering her head in service or prayer is symbolic of reverence to the Almighty's Covenant and is not a command. I highly admire cultural traditions of chastity and modesty as displayed by Moslem, Hindu, and Hebrew women but remember these are only outward signs of honoring Abba's Commands. Abba's Commands was not to cover but not to be adulterous. When we cover we say to the world that we are Set Apart women but being Set Apart is not about the covering our heads but tilling our hearts. This sets the stage for our behaviors because we do what is shaped in our hearts. In all we study for Abba, we must get to the HEART of the matter.

Again, we can cover and be faithful mothers with our children but if there are children in this world suffering or a sister who is in bondage or hurting and we step over them, then we have failed to Honor the Gospel of Yahushua (Abba's eleventh command). Now, I know Sister AliYah's has true Love for all who crosses her path but many of us live under our tallit or headcovering. Please know that I believe in covering for women because of what it symbolizes but symbols mean nothing, if it is not actualized. With all this preaching (smiles) I want to address the topic as Brother James and Sister Lucretia and even Apostle Cauline all stated... we have to consider the culture of the times in order to understand the message in the scripture. Now, ironically... once this is done... I believe all of us will respond differently to the Besorah of Yahushua (Gospel of Yeshua/ Jesus)... It must be written upon our hearts. I believe droves of Christians will move to the walk in Truths and many professed Hebrews will let go of legalism and become embedded in the Ruwach HaKoDesh from their hearts to their minds and to their walk.

[Eemah Martha aka Hephzybah]

I have one problem in the teaching above... husband of one wife.... I truly believe you have totally ignored the cultural piece that gives this a totally different meaning.

During this time, men often had more than one wife. I believe that Sha'ul was saying that to be a bishop or elder, you could not have more than one wife. I also believe that because women only had one husband, there would not have been a need to make this statement. I also believe there may not have been any women bishops but this does not mean to me, that those words were purposed to eliminate women from being a bishop but to stipulate that to be a bishop or elder, the man can only have one wife.

This is the only part of your teaching above I disagree with. I never understood the role of the apostle, even though I do believe I walk in the Apostalic... :) We do agree that there were women apostles in the day of our Messiah.... great! Well, there are plenty of Apostles here, so perhaps they will share their role with us. emissaries... I believe is the hebrew term for apostles... I remember because today, I attended the installation of two pastors... husband and wife team.... I had my scriptures with me and as they read about apostles... my scriptures used the term emissaries... I will look this up tomorrow. Great teaching. Shalom! Shalom!

[Eemah Martha aka Hephzybah]

Blessings Family,
Shaul said that Junia was amongst the best apostles... Brother Yehoshua, you may not agree but with Apostle Paul, the one whom you often quote, but he said it and I believe he had good reasons to say it. We all know that when a woman inspired by Abba steps up to the plate, she excells like few others can :) Also, can we assume that the male use of pronouns equates to the elimination of women? Heck No... if that was the case... women were left out of Torah almost completely.... Greek transliterations like Greek cultures.... eliminates female gender in most of their writings ... and uses male gender in words... English does the same in most cases. So we certainly cannot use this argument as a basis to eliminate women from the work of Abba.

Now, I do believe that this back and forth over scripture to keep women from doing what the Ruwach of Abba has sent them to do.... gather the Remnant of Abba... perhaps is futile. We all - men and women... hebrew and gentile...must do what Abba has given us to do, even if others feel it is unrighteous or whatever. We, men and women, have to be prepared to answer the Most High when we are directed to lead and fail to do so... We must face HIM if we go off on our own tangent instead of staying home with our family. Whatever we do, we must spend much time in HIS FACE and know HIS Direction and Purposes in our lives. Not even Shaul can dictate that for you... Go to Abba and no without a doubt what HE wants of your service. I am thankful for Thecla, and Junia, and all the Mary's and Judith and Esther and Deborah and all those achotees who did not settle for what the culture of the times scuplted for them... but did as Ruwach lead them to do....

I must also say that while I do not promote any doctrines on this issue... I do not denounce those who are serving Abba in Spirit and in Truth. Those who stand for women being secluded to minister to women and children, I find commendable... This is sooo important today. Yet, while our Hebrew brothers are lost and is away from Abba, those women who have taken the torch by the Ruwach HaKoDesh, I also commend. In all this said, I must say this to all of the women leaders.... You must be very certain it is Abba's will for you and not your own...because according to the scripture that Moreh quoted, if your household is out of order.... your children not living a covenant life... mine are not.... then we cannot according to Abba, be called to be leaders in ministry. This is for men and women. I know I cannot go out and save souls while my children's lives and souls perish. This is why Moreh says...how can women go out and preach... Rearing the children were their main obligation. I believe it is still today. Yet, women then and today still evangelized the besorah of Yahushua.

Oh... there was a big move of women who did go out but they opted not to have children because of their zeal for ministry... In other words they took an oath of chastity like Thecla and this truly had the men of the times distraught.

I do believe this is another reason why Greek influence over our Word requests women to be silent. Can you imagine what happened when the wives took that oath of chastity? LOL! By the way, Thecla was an apostle along side of Shaul, for a season... You can read of this in the Book of Thecla and Paul. Our brothers today who hold fast to the letters of Shaul should never cover their head while in assembly and should never consider having a second wife but I find this not to be true with our Hebrew brethern for whatever the reason. Finally, let me say I do believe all Scripture in the cannon or KJV is the inspired Word of Abba but I do not believe it is all the Word of Abba... There is a distinct difference. From Torah, Tanak (includes the Apocrypha), Besorah, and Pauline Writings, I hold the first three up in highest esteem and in that order.