Can a person who knows the bible honestly say that speaking in tongues is done right now days in church?

[hildo]

if yes can you explain 1 corinthians ch: 14.  because i see it tell us something different. your input would be appreciated.

[Pastor Rodrick Sweet,ThM]

read this discussion Tongues have ceased

[hildo]

i think i understand one thing now. if the isrealites were not affraid of GOD in his presense when he was on the moutian, then i can understand how some people who call themselves theologians or ministers can be blind to the fact of not apply scripture properly. people need to wake up and beggin to expect ministers to apply the bible the right way or remove them from the pulpit. some ministers say they have a covering for such things, but the only people are family memebers, and friends who got there back and expect, and require nothing of them. wat i mean is scratch my back ill scratch yours. as long as we in charge well be all right and taken care of. so its to there best interest to do what the majority want. how sad yet it happens everyday across the wolrd with people who complain about leadership in america & politics, and yet themselves play the same game. how blind and how dumb. may GOD help us to stay faithfull around so many pharisees.

[Pastor Melvin King]

It is not that tongues have ceased, but people have ceased, not only to speak in tongues, but to speak in prayer altogether. What do we need with tongues if we don't have prayer. The sincere fervent prayer is been thrown out the same window. Its like throwing the baby out with the wash water. All we like sheep, have gone astray.

[Rev. Louis J. Guarine]

Hildo,

In all respect to you, since you do not like arguments, I can only say that I fully understand the gifts of the Holy Spirit as outlined in 1 Cor. 12 and I also know how they are to be used as outlined in 1 Cor. 14 and the fact that they are to be used in love.

If you have been a minister for ten years, and you still don't know that mature Christians use the Gifts of the Holy Spirit which includes the speaking in tongues, then I honestly believe that you would not understand or agree with me if I tried to explain this to you.

Please seek the Holy Spirit for guidance and be serious about it.

Brother Louis

[hildo]

well if you read caefully how they work and the whole book of corinthians then you would agree that in fact the speaking of tongues is to be done in order. if you practice out side that order then you are mistaken in the application of tongues, and the use of them. if you read acts ch:2 it mentions specific different languages and not babble. so in fact one can rest assured that the gifts practiced in proper use draws the Lord near to them not to show how spiritual one is. most people in church settings speaking in tongues which in fact is not a tongue as they seem to claim, draws attention to themselves and not to GOD. Therefore if one is studied in scripture not denominational tennants of faith, one will plainly see the obvious, speaking in tongues is done in order with accordance with the scripture. which means if you have not yet understood useing and reading the bible, that the gift of speaking in tongues in done in order, 2 and no more than 3, and one at a time. it also says its for the unbeliever, not for the believer. yet it mention that phophecy is for the believer not the unbeliever. yet the odd thing is that most people will rather speak in tongues to show or fake spiritualism or a closeness to GOD, rather than follow true biblical doctrine. On the other hand the gift that needs to be excersized in church is prophecy, yet almost all christians will no do it. why? because phophecy is not easily faked unlike tongues. ive herd many different styles of tongues i guess if thats how you label it. ive herd baaing like sheep, laughing, mooing, babbling, etc. in the church. yet not one of those instances was ever mentioned in the bible. the bible says they spoke in tongues. not bable. show me where it says bable. you cant. babble is man made. which is sad because if in fact tongues was being done right in church why then does the church have such little power. you have false prophets lieing, healers not healing, and many other nonsense things going on. if JESUS were here he would probably have a heart attack from the all rediculous things passed of as holyness and godliness. your right i will not argue because timothy says not to argue because it brings division. but i will stand on what the word says. i would challenge anyone who was educated or well read in the bible to a biblical debate on the use of tongues. this is why?. because the bible is right and man is not. therefore anyone with common sense would know and see that tongues are actuall languages not babble according to the bible. if you believe that bable is tongues that is your right, but it is not your right to word sentences in such a way that would seem to make your view piont right and nothing else. i respect my elders, but not arrogance over biblical theology. how can you say you honestly believe i would not understand you, thats assumption, and you know nothing about me. what if i told you i had 7 phds. would that make a difference. what if i told you i knew many well known preacheers who preach and say they know the scripture says that but since the particular denomination they minister in believes different they preach what you believe on the issue in tongues. you know nothing of what i honestly think. therefore it is my opinion, ( and it is an opnion) that you have stopped learning or are resceptive to any true conversation of theology. if indeed you had respect as you started off your post then it probably would have been done in a different way. in such a way of as to inform, not tell. i thank you for taking your valuable time to read and respond to the topic, and understand you can write what your view is. but when i see someone assume things about another, then i find the conversation shallow and onesided with the other person not listening. GOD bless you and keep studying never stop that, but take time to actually listen to someone and ponder there words, rather than tell. GOD BLESS.

[Rev. Louis J. Guarine]

Hildo,

I agree with much that you have just said in your latest reply to this discussion.

I said what I said, not to offend you, but to tell you honestly that I could not convince you to believe the Scriptures if you have not been able up to this point to understand that speaking in tongues is a legitimate and holy gift given to Christians to edify the Church in part and to build up themselves in their most holy faith.

You had asked the question if there were any in the Church who honestly believed that speaking in tongues was genuinely being practised in the Church today and if it was of God Who gave it.

I was only trying to say 'yes' to the question you had asked.

I agree that much of the charismatic gifts in the Church environment today are being misused and abused, maybe because people want to be thought of as being equal to those genuinely gifted of God in these areas. Some of the gifts are being used incorrectly because of ignorance of those using the gifts or even possibly for some other ungodly reason.

I don't mean to appear dogmatic, but I will stand on the Scriptures as I feel the Holy Spirit has helped me to understand them.

Again, Hildo, I'm sorry for coming off as being arrogant in my reply.

Love you in Christ and hope that someone near you can explain to you face-to-face in a way that you'll understand. I would talk to you myself but this is rather difficult to do on this network.

God Bless you always,

Brother Louis

[Pastor Melvin King]

Brother Louis has mirrored my thoughts on this matter.

[hildo]

SO ARE YOU SAYING YOU BELIEVE IN TONGUES AND EVERYONE SHOULD SPEAK IN TONGUES ALL TOGETHER AT ONCE INT HE CHURCH OR ARE YOU SAYING 2-3 AND NO MORE, AND ONE AT A TIME. I BELIEVE IN THE ALL THE GIFTS BUT ALOT OF CHURCHS OR PEOPLE OF FAITH IN CERTIAN CHURCHES PRACTICE TRADITIONS THAT ARE NOT BIBLICAL. I BELIEVE 2-3 NO MORE, AND ONE AT A TIME. THIS IS WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY BLAK AND WHITE. NO NEED TO ADD OR INTERPRET ANY FURTHER WHICH SOME SEEM TO THINK THEY HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO. I GUESS I HEAR YOU SAYING YOU DO BELIEVE ALL SHOULD AT ONE TIME IN CHURCH, AND YET ON THE LAST REPLY IT SEEMS YOU BELIEVE AS SCRIPTURE SAYS. COULD YOU CLARIY PLEASE. WHAT EXACTLY DO YOU BELIEVE AND HOW SHOULD TONGUES BE PRACTICED IN CHURCH?.... YOUR REPLY WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED.

[Rev. Louis J. Guarine]

Hildo,

I never said I believe that all people in the congregation should speak in tongues all at once. This practice is not addressed in Scripture. I do believe that the gift of speaking in tongues as a message from God to the Body of Christ should be limited to two or three times as the Scripture declares.

Let's try to clear up this misunderstanding. There is a difference between speaking in tongues when being used as a prayer language and the Gift of the Holy Ghost of speaking in tongues when God uses this utterance of the Holy Ghost to bring a message to the the Body of Christ.

A heavenly prayer language is available to every Christian if he desires to use this God-given language. This prayer language is not understood by the one exercising it nor by the hearers nearby. The user speaks to God in divine mysteries as the Bible declares. It is used to praise, thank and worship God in the spirit and by the Spirit. It is also used to edify the one speaking or as one other person participating in this discussion said, the one speaking in his prayer language is charging up his spiritual batteries or the Bible says, he is edifying or building up himself in his faith.
This divine prayer language is a gift from God and is the evidence that one has been baptized in the Holy Spirit. But this prayer language is not one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit which is mentioned in 1 Cor. 12.

When a person is used by the Holy Spirit in the Gift of speaking in other tongues in order to speak God's mind to His children, an interpreter must be present who then will be used in another gift called the Gift of Interpretation of tongues. The reason for the interpreter is that no one understands the message unless God reveals what was said through the interpretation. If an interpreter is not present in the Church, then the speaker in other tongues should remain silent. Another way the Holy Spirit communicates to the Church is throught the Gift of Prophecy, in which case, the speaking in tongues is not needed nor the interpretation of tongues. The Bible says that the Gift of Prophecy is the equivalent of both the tongues and the interpretation.

Now Hido, if you can see the differences in these manifestions of the Holy Spirit, this just might clear up some of the confusion.

One more thing, when an entire congregation speaks in other tongues all at once, they are not being used in the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but are only being allowed to exercise their desires to worship God in corporate worship rather than in private worship. I see no violation of Scripture here as long as the worship leader is coordinating this worship so as to avoid confusion from coming into the Church.

Focus on chapter 14 of 1st Cor. to learn more about how to do things decently and in order.

God's blessings on you Hildo as you continue to search for the truth which can be found only in the Scriptures.

Thank you for the chance to be of help to you if I was of any help at all.

Brother Louis

[hildo]

yes its good what you said but the part of the worship leader cordinating it is not correct. if you can direct or control the spirit or gifts then its not GOD or Holy. who can control GOD. i believe you understand scripture but i think you allow the majority vote of interpretation of scripture to mold you views. all you said was true and based on scripture but when you mention coordinating that the worship leader orchestrates then that is man doing it, not GOD. ive read corinthians and many times, and have asked many theologians, professors ( believers & non-believers), life long christians and all come back after really studying corinthians and say you know i never really understood until now that i read it for my self what it was really saying. so i agree with what you said exept the last part. its almost as if it were an apology as to not offened anyone. if you read what you siad and then the last part its like you saying one thing and then another. so if scripture is to be interperated as it should be. then either its wrong to speak unisonually all at once in tongues or not. it cant go both ways. just my thoughts based on scripture. i see we both stand on scripture, so i guess one of us will be wrong and one of us right. i look forward to the day when all things are explained to us by GOD in heaven. until then GOD BLESS you brother and may his blesings abound greatly on your life and ministry. ONE LOVE, ONE FATIH, ONE LORD

BROTHER
HILDO

[Rev. Louis J. Guarine]

Hildo,

It looks like we're down to the last point requiring clarification.

The leader of the service whoever he might be has no power to control the Holy Spirit, I agree. I had already told you that the people at this time are not using one of the nine gifts of the Holy Spirit but are only using their God-given prayer language to worship the Lord. In every church service, there is some kind of program of order. The leader is only leading the order of worship, not controlling the Holy Spirit. As you have said, this wouldn't be of God and I agree. Do you remember I told you that praying in the spirit differs from the gift of the Spirit? The leader is only telling the congregation, "ok, saints, let's take time now to give God praise and His due." In the churches where the prayer language is an accepted practise, the congregation then knows that it's time to worship God in a way not possible to do with with their finite minds.
True worship is best when done with the help of the Holy Spirit.

To further explain, the heavenly prayer language or praying in the Spirit can be started or stopped by the user at will, but the Gift of divers kinds of tongues or speaking in tongues as one of the gifts is only controlled by the Holy Spirt and is released when God wants it to be released. If the user does not have a message from God to be given to the Body of Christ and still insists on speaking in His prayer language, then certainly he is out of order and should remain silent. A spirit-filled Christian should know when something is not of God and that the person abusing the gift lacks proper understanding.

Does this help any/

God bless you brother for seeking the God's truth.

Brother Louis

[Rev. Louis J. Guarine]

One more thing Brother Hildo,

I understood your discussion question to ask, "Is the speaking of tongues being done right now in the church today?" to mean "Is it being practiced now in the churches?"
I just saw something now that I haven't seen before. Maybe you were asking if the speaking in tongues being done in churches today were being done correctly or properly. If so, then this changes the whole meaing if the discussion.

I agree that often, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are misunderstood by most people and there is much abuse in the using of these gifts today, not intentionally, but because of ignorance.

On the other hand, these gifts are often being used correctly, pleasing God and blessing the members of the congregation.

We are required to discern and to judge prophecy, and the other gifts to see of what spirit they are of.

Let's conclude that these gifts of the Holy Spirit are gifts from God, otherwise there would have been no mention of them in the Holy Scriptures.

Brother Louis