Salvation is it eternal regardless of the circumstances or not come on lets get everyone’s opinion

[Angela Doreen]

But what is your take on what would have happened if the prodigal son or anyone who had received salvation backslides by rejecting the Father, His Son, the Holy Ghost and totally turned away from the faith and DIED without having repented or had the opportunity to return to the fold. Would that person be heading for hell or heaven? This is a conversation that came up with a couple of my work colleague when we were in an after discussion on Luke 15:11-32 so I would be interested in having a discussion and receiving everyone's point of view.

[Dr Sarah Carrol]

If you honestly look at it, you will even see that in Revelations there are names blotted out of the Lamb's book of life. So obviously salvation is not eternal, other wise names could not be taken out of the Lamb's book of life.

 

There are numerous scriptures that say if we do not keep that commandments we do mot love God. So one should ask themselves "if a person does not love God is that salvation?"So everyone keeps the commandments except the Sabbath which is Saturday, but I guess we all have a good reason why we shouldn't keep the Sabbath? The point is if we do not keep the Sabbath which should be fairly easy, we place ourselves above God, because we are creating our own rules, which makes us gods unto ourselves. I would think that is not salvation either?

 

It also states that how we can tell that we belong to Jesus (which really is how salvation is defined even though we want to come up with other definitions), is by our love one for the other and that type of love can only come through Jesus. 

 

In all of this thread I have seen some scripture being said about what people see as salvation, but if you really stop and be honest with yourself, salvation is really turning our lives over to God through Jesus. Does anyone here disagree with that? We have been bought with a price. That is also clear and if we have been bought with a price we are no longer our own. If we have been bought with a price, the sign of that is seeking Him for what to do in life, who to marry, where to work, what our calling and purpose is, etc,. The facts are about 94% of the body don't even know their calling and purpose besides going to church and maybe tithing or an occasional offering here or there and they believe fully they are saved even if they do not know God's plan for them for their lives. What I see is that is the great deception.

[AMECHI GODSON]

Salvation which is by faith alone in Christ as the Savior is different from turning our lives to Christ technically. The process of living a Christ-like life is a progressive experience.At the moment of salvation, the regenerate part of us that got saved is essentially our souls, and the creation of the human spirit, to absolve spiritual phenomenon, and not the body.Salvation is not perfection, believers still commit all different kind of sins, overt, mental vocal sins. However, God expects us to grow, consequently, less frequent sins.

Observation of sabbath or holy days is completely out of this.

[Dr Sarah Carrol]

Well I don't think one can keep the Sabbath out of this as it is a part of the commandments, unless I am missing something, which could be. Granted no one has a right to say how one should or should not honor the Sabbath, but the verses below make it clear that if we do not keep the commandments, we are not making it? Those verses are clearly in the New Testament, but there were a lot from the Old Testament as well.

 

So to me keeping the commandments seems to be important? I know the Christian church does not teach that. I don't know why, because it is clear?

 

It clearly indicates that it is a sin not to honor the commandments. In fact in Revelations it says we just are flat out not making it if we do not do the commandments. Ok I can understand if your young in Christ one may not know what they are doing. Shoot I have been around for years and I am still somewhat clueless on many things.

 

What has always concerned me is that we influence others to go one direction or the other. I for sure do not want to send people in the wrong direction. That one concerns me more than anything, but maybe thats just me?

 

Below sorry about the way it came out. I copied and pasted from somewhere else. It came out the way it did.

 

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Matthew 19:17 And He said unto him, "Why callest thou Me good? There is none good but One, that is, God. But if thou wilt enter into Life, keep the commandments."

John 14:15 "If ye love Me, keep My commandments.

John 14:21 He that hath My commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me; and he that loveth Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will manifest Myself to him."

John 15:10 If ye keep My commandments, ye shall abide in My love, even as I have kept My Father’s commandments, and abide in His love.

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we know that we know Him: if we keep His commandments.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, "I know Him," and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3:24 And he that keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him, and He in him. And hereby we know that He abideth in us: by the Spirit which He hath given us.

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God: when we love God and keep His commandments.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God: that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not grievous.

2 John 1:6 And this is love: that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Revelations 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the Tree of Life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

[AMECHI GODSON]

My friend, you use scripture to interpret scripture. For a believer, absent from the body is face to face with the Lord. To die and to live is in the hand of the Sovereign Lord. No one dies without permitted by God, irrespective of the circumstances surrounding the death.

[Rt. Rev. Adrian L. West I]

you say here that "no one dies without permitted by God, irrespective of the circumstances surrounding the death" but in an earlier post in this same discussion you say" they died that is it" truly a scholar such as yourself understands that if we die in sin, hell not HEAVEN  is our reward..

[AMECHI GODSON]

Sometimes, i literally cry for the body of Christ, especially when i read or hear what so-called ministers preach about salvation. So much ignorant and distortion of biblical truth.My brother, no single individual will go to hell because of his personal sins. Under the law of double jeopardy no one can pay for his offense twice. Christ paid for the sins of the whole world. It is only one sin that sends someone to hell, it is called the unpardonable sin. Further, i want you know that we were not condemned by our personal sins. We were identified with Adam, but now, because we trusted in Christ for our eternal salvation, we are identified with him. IT IS CALLED GRACE!  Additionally, if one got saved and renounce his salvation, according to your argument that person can be saved again.  Some people may experience salvation many times in their life. That's ridiculous.Finally, to die and to live is in the hand of God. He allows certain events, either permitting Satan or an individual to go ahead with his action. God has the Omnipotent power not to allow certain, or to permit it. That's SOVEREIGNTY!

[Rt. Rev. Adrian L. West I]

so-called/ then ignorantly, you sound like Mr. Dumas/ keep your personal feelings and opinions to yourself, then you call me brother/ WOW, ignorant distortion at the least, most likely your state of mind. There is no way you can argue your statements with Biblical truths, the word does not support ypur argument.

   you say we were identified with Adam, cool o.k. Now when in the Scriptures, Gospel, Torah, or any other resource you use, were you have read one has to or one has repented and been saved because he was identified with Adam?

   I have not mentioned renunciation at all, the truth of the matter is You yourself are ignorant of the Knowlege, Wisdom, and most of all the Understanding,of the Kingdom of God.

 No sinner shall enter into God's Kingdom period. He does not allow for sin at anytime/saved or unsaved.

  Question hypotheticaly if you died in the bed with another woman/man/do you honestly think Heaven is your eternity?

  Do you honestly think that a Christian who is living in sin is Heaven bound?

  now you say you literaly cry/ no need to cry for who you address as so-called. the Word says if you save yourself you do a good thing...

  p.s. what sininary did you graduate from.. wherever that is take your degree back and Denounce that, for all you have learned are cleverly disguised lies...

[Rt. Rev. Adrian L. West I]

I like that REV. All I am really trying to say is this, if one sins, and truly repents, God is a forgiver, how one deals with the issue of salvation is a very important matter. The Apostle Paul tells us to work out our own soul salvation with fear and trembling. With that being said, One has to be repentent as well as forgiving, you know if you don't forgive, neither will your Father in Heaven forgive you..

  David was a man who repented often, and God forgave him everytime.. Salvation is an everyday occurence, just as grace is. Both have been and are being bestowed upon us each and everyday/ so my question to alot of people I meet and know is that "why is it so hard to repent?

 Brother I just know as for me I repent often, about thoughts, words and deeds, whether, I just refuse to be one of those hypocritical praying Deacon or Preachers who make long insignificant prayers with statements such as "if I have done" all the while knowing what you are doing..

 as you Quoted in Romans 8:2/ the Apostle says "from the law of sin and death" the law as we know does not save, that is why the Gospel must be preached. Brother i believe that we can agree that just as we check on our investments/ we need to be sure that we are invested in this work of the Kingdom.. repentance is a major role for the Christian....

and the Gospel starts with this "repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand" he didn't specify whether that was for saved or unsaved folks/ like the old folks say" what's good for the goose is good for the gander. 

   thanks for the dialogues brother, because you are a scholar and a fo'real Brutha!!

[Rt. Rev. Adrian L. West I]

Those that are in Christ... that is another subject huh? LOL

[AMECHI GODSON]

In addition, the Bible did not call salvation a temporal experience but eternal. That means It has to do with all eternity, for the source is an eternal God for has imputed into us His own very nature. I rejoices so often when i reflect on this amazing grace gift in me, sometimes i can't even comprehend it this, but it is amazing indeed.

[AMECHI GODSON]

Even if the prodigal son failed to come back it will NEVER, EVER, CANCEL the biblical fact about the prodigal son's position IN CHRIST. ONCE A SON FOR EVER A SON. But the prodigal was nonetheless a son, even in his spiritual state. He can never lose his sonship, he was a son suffering from his own negative volition. Look, my friend, scripture cannot contradict scripture, and we use scripture to interpret scripture. And don't forget, our Lord told that parable to explain a point, that every believer commits personal sin. the elder went into his own far country ( carnality or out of fellowship) when his younger brother returned. Finally, salvation can be categorized into three: positional salvation, experiential, and ultimate salvation.We are now saved ( THIS IS WRITTEN IN PERFECT TENSE IN GREEK) we are being saved daily as we make choices, and we will be saved (our body) at the last day.We are saved to inherit an inheritance undefiled reserved in heaven for us, but must execute the plan of God, or the person would lose his reward (blessing) and not his eternal salvation. Therefore, will be inequality in heaven, do you understand? Some will rule their fellow believers.

[AMECHI GODSON]

Hello, those Scripture you quoted in Revelation, you cited it out of its context. I know it is common among Christians to tell the Scripture to say what they think, without taken time to understand what the original writer had in mind. I may not go further with you, unless i see in you the spirit of humility. May the Lord open your eyes to ask questions than to argue, even ignorantly.  Again, let me state it categorically clear to you that, there is no condemnation for those who are IN CHRIST JESUS, Rom.8:1. This verse is written in context of a believer ( Apostle Paul) who in in spite of being eternally saved, he still commit personal sins. This verse speaks of our position or status in Christ. No one, not even God would change His Word. Look up this verse in different translations, you will notice that some translators added some extra sentence, which has been taken out, since it is never found in the original manuscript. Further, the bible is not SILENT as to the fate of Ananias and Sapphira, rather, you have a superficial understanding of the ESSENCE OF GOD. This basic doctrine will you a lot if you lay hold to it. Finally, salvation is likened to a  natural birth, no matter how disobedient a child is to his father, even if both deny their relationship, the gene of the father can never be separated from that of the errant child, it is permanent. However, the child may loose certain blessing from the father, but not his bond of blood relationship. Think about these, and may God be with you, in Jesus name..