WAS THE RIB FLESH?
Genesis 2:21 “And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof: 22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” (KJ)
Word says in two places that God used “rib” only to create the female. In the Hebrew “rib” is defined as (from “The Strong‘s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible“):
“a rib (as curved), lit. (of the body) or fig. (of a door, i.e. leaf); hence, a side, lit. (of a person) or fig. (of an object or the sky, i.e. quartet); arch. A (espec. Floor or ceiling) timber or plank (single or collect., I.e. a flooring):- beam, board, chamber, corner, leaf, plank, rib, side (chamber).
As a further point of reference, this use of the word “flesh,” is based upon a primary root word meaning “to be fresh, i.e. (rosy (fig.) cheerful); to announce (glad news):- messenger, preach, publish, shew forth, (bear, bring, carry, preach, good, tell good) tidings." The word ”flesh” itself means: "flesh (from it’s freshness), by extension body, person; also (by euphem.) the pudenda of man:-body, (fat, lean) flesh (-ed), kin, (man -) kind, + nakedness, self, skin.”
Within the whole of the Bible the word “rib” is used a total of five (5) times, and “ribs” a total of two (2) times. In each instance the same Hebrew definition as given above applies whether it be “rib“ or “ribs.” With exception of Genesis 2:22, in every other four (4) instances, the word “rib” is used in direct reference to stabbing a person in the rib, hence even the “side” as defined in the Hebrew. Of the two (2) uses of the word “ribs,” one is in Genesis 2:21 and the other is found in Daniel 7:5. In Daniel 7:5 it says:
“And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.”
Here reference made to “ribs” also, I believe, may very well include that of flesh. Yet the issues surrounding the use of “ribs” in Genesis 2:21, and then “rib,” in Genesis 2:22 is a different matter.
In Genesis 2:21-22, the word is symbolically speaking within the realm of Creation, about a specific action taken by God, as completed upon a specific person, and within the life of one man. As such, as a Creative action and though while also symbolic, it is literal.
That is, the word states in Genesis 2:21-22, that God used “rib” alone from the man, yet in Genesis 2:24 we learn that it was the actual desire of God to create the male and the female as “one flesh.” But what did God do with the “flesh” of Adam? In Genesis 2:21 word records that he “closed up the flesh instead thereof.”
The word “instead” indicates that God had a will, a will even confirmed in Genesis 2:24, to use the “flesh” of Adam but did not, he made a choice “instead,” against what was his own highest desire, to reject the use of this man’s flesh by closing “up the flesh instead thereof.” And unless we believe now that God is unable to separate the flesh from the bone, what is twice stated in Genesis 2:21-22 is literally what he used, bone alone (and not the “side” and therefore also the “flesh”). If God proved able to create according to his highest desire for the male and female in his use of an Adam as a man exercising free-will, then word would certainly have recorded it and even to the delight and glory of God. Instead we have word in Genesis 2:24 speaking about what was (is) the highest desire of God in marriage for the male and the female but we know this is not inclusive of an Adam, for reasons already stated, but also because Adam had no parents to leave.
God speaks in this manner about a man leaving his father and his mother in Genesis 2:24 (parents which an Adam had not), because due to the flesh his foreknowledge was compelled to reject, he could not use an Adam along with a freshly created Eve as a model in word of marriage for believers. The only action left that He could take was to speak his desire for marriage purposed for future hearers and readers of his word, in the stark absence of the garden model he actually desired to use in an Adam and a freshly created Eve of “one flesh.” But a garden Adam and Eve were never of one flesh, they only shared a bone which God by the way did not otherwise symbolically purpose for anything between this man and woman as husband and wife.
The "flesh" of an Adam and an Eve, even as proven by the foreknowledge of God, were in fact opposite one from another. This act of God, in refusing the use of an Adam’s flesh (and having already called this man an “Adam,” meaning to be ashamed, mean man of low degree, a hypocrite) only further serves to confirm what was the foreknowledge of God about what and who this man would prove to be in the garden. It was a reality for an Adam not so, according to the foreknowledge and proven actions of God, for a fallen but righteously confessed and honored Eve (an “Eve“ with name meaning “life-giver“ and title won from God as “mother of all living” and that even as a virgin, childless female).
Given what is proven about the mind of God, we also cannot allow Adam to interpret Scripture for us when he in error says in Genesis 2:23: “And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of “Man.” God rejected his flesh.
But how do you interpret this?
*PLEASE BE AWARE THAT THERE ARE THOSE ON THE BPN UNABLE TO DIGEST THE LIGHT OF THE HEBREW AND EVEN FEAR THE VERY DISCUSSION OF IT. LIKE THE GESTAPO, THEY FOLLOW ME FROM PAGE TO PAGE SPEAKING NOT TO THE WORD BUT ONLY IN LAUNCHING CHARACTER ASSAULTS DEVOID OF SOUND WORD ITSELF IN AN EFFORT TO EXTINGUISH AND BY-PASS THE THINKING OF THE INDIVIDUAL MIND BASED UPON THE TRUTH OF WORD AND NOT TRADITION. YET IF THE TRADITIONAL TEACHING REGARDING AN ADAM IS TRUE, THEN WHAT IS THERE TO FEAR? PROVE THE WORD WITHIN THE FULL CONTEXT OF THE WORD AND EVEN IN RIGHT ALIGNMENT OF THE HEBREW. COMMENTS INCLUSIVE OF PERSONAL ASSAULT WILL BE IDENTIFIED AS SUCH AND OTHERWISE IGNORED. I HAVE BEEN ADVISED TO DELETE THEIR COMMENTS BUT HAVE YET TO DETERMINE HOW TO DO SO ON THE EDIT PAGE OF A POST. IF YOU KNOW, PLEASE ADVISE.
If we believe God is Truth and Truth is Word, then why can’t we talk about it? If God is his Truth, then whatever truth we believe we have, if of God, ought to be strong enough to stand up to the test in the absence of finding need to resort to character assault. If what you believe in word cannot be credibly proven in the absence of character assault, then take a second look at what and how you believe. For any part I have ever allowed myself to be dragged into this, again I apologize, yet it has no place.
Word says in two places that God used “rib” only to create the female. In the Hebrew “rib” is defined as (from “The Strong‘s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible“):
“a rib (as curved), lit. (of the body) or fig. (of a door, i.e. leaf); hence, a side, lit. (of a person) or fig. (of an object or the sky, i.e. quartet); arch. A (espec. Floor or ceiling) timber or plank (single or collect., I.e. a flooring):- beam, board, chamber, corner, leaf, plank, rib, side (chamber).
As a further point of reference, this use of the word “flesh,” is based upon a primary root word meaning “to be fresh, i.e. (rosy (fig.) cheerful); to announce (glad news):- messenger, preach, publish, shew forth, (bear, bring, carry, preach, good, tell good) tidings." The word ”flesh” itself means: "flesh (from it’s freshness), by extension body, person; also (by euphem.) the pudenda of man:-body, (fat, lean) flesh (-ed), kin, (man -) kind, + nakedness, self, skin.”
Within the whole of the Bible the word “rib” is used a total of five (5) times, and “ribs” a total of two (2) times. In each instance the same Hebrew definition as given above applies whether it be “rib“ or “ribs.” With exception of Genesis 2:22, in every other four (4) instances, the word “rib” is used in direct reference to stabbing a person in the rib, hence even the “side” as defined in the Hebrew. Of the two (2) uses of the word “ribs,” one is in Genesis 2:21 and the other is found in Daniel 7:5. In Daniel 7:5 it says:
“And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.”
Here reference made to “ribs” also, I believe, may very well include that of flesh. Yet the issues surrounding the use of “ribs” in Genesis 2:21, and then “rib,” in Genesis 2:22 is a different matter.
In Genesis 2:21-22, the word is symbolically speaking within the realm of Creation, about a specific action taken by God, as completed upon a specific person, and within the life of one man. As such, as a Creative action and though while also symbolic, it is literal.
That is, the word states in Genesis 2:21-22, that God used “rib” alone from the man, yet in Genesis 2:24 we learn that it was the actual desire of God to create the male and the female as “one flesh.” But what did God do with the “flesh” of Adam? In Genesis 2:21 word records that he “closed up the flesh instead thereof.”
The word “instead” indicates that God had a will, a will even confirmed in Genesis 2:24, to use the “flesh” of Adam but did not, he made a choice “instead,” against what was his own highest desire, to reject the use of this man’s flesh by closing “up the flesh instead thereof.” And unless we believe now that God is unable to separate the flesh from the bone, what is twice stated in Genesis 2:21-22 is literally what he used, bone alone (and not the “side” and therefore also the “flesh”). If God proved able to create according to his highest desire for the male and female in his use of an Adam as a man exercising free-will, then word would certainly have recorded it and even to the delight and glory of God. Instead we have word in Genesis 2:24 speaking about what was (is) the highest desire of God in marriage for the male and the female but we know this is not inclusive of an Adam, for reasons already stated, but also because Adam had no parents to leave.
God speaks in this manner about a man leaving his father and his mother in Genesis 2:24 (parents which an Adam had not), because due to the flesh his foreknowledge was compelled to reject, he could not use an Adam along with a freshly created Eve as a model in word of marriage for believers. The only action left that He could take was to speak his desire for marriage purposed for future hearers and readers of his word, in the stark absence of the garden model he actually desired to use in an Adam and a freshly created Eve of “one flesh.” But a garden Adam and Eve were never of one flesh, they only shared a bone which God by the way did not otherwise symbolically purpose for anything between this man and woman as husband and wife.
The "flesh" of an Adam and an Eve, even as proven by the foreknowledge of God, were in fact opposite one from another. This act of God, in refusing the use of an Adam’s flesh (and having already called this man an “Adam,” meaning to be ashamed, mean man of low degree, a hypocrite) only further serves to confirm what was the foreknowledge of God about what and who this man would prove to be in the garden. It was a reality for an Adam not so, according to the foreknowledge and proven actions of God, for a fallen but righteously confessed and honored Eve (an “Eve“ with name meaning “life-giver“ and title won from God as “mother of all living” and that even as a virgin, childless female).
Given what is proven about the mind of God, we also cannot allow Adam to interpret Scripture for us when he in error says in Genesis 2:23: “And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of “Man.” God rejected his flesh.
But how do you interpret this?
*PLEASE BE AWARE THAT THERE ARE THOSE ON THE BPN UNABLE TO DIGEST THE LIGHT OF THE HEBREW AND EVEN FEAR THE VERY DISCUSSION OF IT. LIKE THE GESTAPO, THEY FOLLOW ME FROM PAGE TO PAGE SPEAKING NOT TO THE WORD BUT ONLY IN LAUNCHING CHARACTER ASSAULTS DEVOID OF SOUND WORD ITSELF IN AN EFFORT TO EXTINGUISH AND BY-PASS THE THINKING OF THE INDIVIDUAL MIND BASED UPON THE TRUTH OF WORD AND NOT TRADITION. YET IF THE TRADITIONAL TEACHING REGARDING AN ADAM IS TRUE, THEN WHAT IS THERE TO FEAR? PROVE THE WORD WITHIN THE FULL CONTEXT OF THE WORD AND EVEN IN RIGHT ALIGNMENT OF THE HEBREW. COMMENTS INCLUSIVE OF PERSONAL ASSAULT WILL BE IDENTIFIED AS SUCH AND OTHERWISE IGNORED. I HAVE BEEN ADVISED TO DELETE THEIR COMMENTS BUT HAVE YET TO DETERMINE HOW TO DO SO ON THE EDIT PAGE OF A POST. IF YOU KNOW, PLEASE ADVISE.
If we believe God is Truth and Truth is Word, then why can’t we talk about it? If God is his Truth, then whatever truth we believe we have, if of God, ought to be strong enough to stand up to the test in the absence of finding need to resort to character assault. If what you believe in word cannot be credibly proven in the absence of character assault, then take a second look at what and how you believe. For any part I have ever allowed myself to be dragged into this, again I apologize, yet it has no place.
Replies are closed for this discussion.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ms. Elaine Johnson on
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Oh my Tracy, with this cheap webtv thing I am having a hard time tracing back to see if you are speaking to me or Dawn. lol I guess I should push that follow thing at the bottom eh?
At any rate, honestly, the term 'demented' is something I regularly use to describe a 'mentality' and NOT every male. I'm NOT a bitter woman! I LOVE righteous men. I adore those clunk heads no matter how dumb they are. (just kidding...sort of).
Still, that said, I can passionately speak on the injustices of MALE HIERARCHIES who have wronged women and girls the world over with their purposeful MISINTERPRETATION of women in order to subjugate women NOT, to the will of God rather, to the WILL OF FALLEN, 'DEMENTED' MALES.
This is what has happened and as a result, women have stayed in abusive relationships. Women have been stripped of their true 'virtuous woman' Godly ordained worth. Women have been deprived and sorely afflicted because they are not aware of their true Godly pronounced worth i.e. 'God blessed THEM meaning, him and HER and gave THEM i.e.him and HER rule over the Earth (Gen. 1:26-28).
This is why the virtuous woman is described as being a BUSINESSWOMAN i.e. having SERVANTS as they called it in that day (Prov. 31). She is described as being a CORPORATE BUSINESSWOMAN TO BOOT.
"Demented males' like unto that brute Tertullian wrote, 'WOMEN YOU ARE THE DEVIL'S GATEWAY'. Others followed suit. Hence, the appropriate appellation 'DEMENTED' IS JUSTIFIED!
Other than that, I FORGIVE YOU, if you are inferring that I AM BITTER for truth is, I am the most wholesome, lover of righteous men on planet Earth. Truth is, this is a discussion board and I am PASSIONATELY, not BITTERLY discussing issues on the demented male gender whose evil wreaked havoc upon women the world over. Mind you, not ALL males just those who did it.
Bottom line,, this is just that, passionate not bitter, but passionate 'discussion.' I speak against injustice wrought against women and girls the world over, I speak with the passion or righteous indignation that ALL believers should have for women sufferage the world over. However, that's 'speech' during that zealous moment.
Afterwards, one must get off the computer and go back to the joyousness of life in the U.S. where one can wear what we want, have decent jobs, own our own bank accounts, shop, eat, drink and be, amidst dealing with life in the U.S.
Amidst all these matters there is not a bitter bone in my body with regard to the issue as I release all things to He who can make the diference via righteous women coming upon the Internet releasing the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
I am sorry if that is coming off as bitterness to you for amidst all demonic attacks Christ has not only given me a joyful spirit but a humorous witty disposition and I daily praise Him for it.
Still, blessings be upon you my sister, and may God cause you to perceive the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth with regard to any given issue I speak upon, whereupon you erroneously 'judge.' -
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Permalink Reply by HOPE - Psalm 43:5 on
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I apologize if my words were offensive.
You said:
That Scripture has been taught as if it were the 'will of God' when in reality God was saying, 'now that this demented male has fallen satan will use him to wreak havoc upon womankind' and so satan has.
I just didnt see a scripture basis for calling Adam demented.
You said:
I LOVE righteous men. I adore those clunk heads no matter how dumb they are. (just kidding...sort of).
I have a question, can you only love a man who is righteous?
Also, where is the righteous indignation for the men who have also been molested, raped and wronged by women? The percentage is most likely greater for women who are suffering but is a man's suffering a lesser cause because he is a man?
If I fill a thimble with water while another has a glass full... is the liquid in the thimble no less water than the full glass?
You said:
Truth is, this is a discussion board and I am PASSIONATELY, not BITTERLY discussing issues on the demented male gender whose evil wreaked havoc upon women the world over.
Sometimes our passionate speech looks like bitterness because of our tone and/or choice of words and even the timing of when we speak.
Again Sis, I apologize if I misread your words and misunderstood your tone as one of a bitter woman or a woman with a little bit of bitterness towards men in her. -
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Oh Tracy, no apology, no offense taken whatsover, my sister. You actually brought up a great point about the 'field of dandelions'. It's a necessary perspective amidst deep talk because you can get so locked into it that you lose balance.
As a writer, I wrote an over 1400 pg. manuscript and sometimes I'd write so much that words began to collide and I created a new grammar...:-) I needed a voice like yours' to say, 'hey, take a break, smell the roses,' etc. So, I well understand where you are coming from. Make no mistake abou it.
Next, about Adam's dementedness, er, uhm, I, mean, about dear Adam and the fall. Okay, here's where he screwed up.
When God inquired as to what he had done. His answer is 'blame' not 'confession. He blamed 'God' and 'the woman.' (By the way, I got this same take from the Holy Spirit years ago. I actually was pleasantly surprised to meet Dawn who had also been taught this truth.). In fact, mega scholars teach that 'Adam blamed God and the woman' in his confession whereas the 'woman' truly confessed contritely that she had done wrong and been deceived.
Hence, there would be a SECOND ADAM but there would NOT be a SECOND WOMAN and in fact, throughout eternity the Messiah will be called 'THE SEED OF THE WOMAN' (Gen. 3:15).
That's one of the Scriptural ways we know Adam was at fault. His mind was for lack of a more appropriate offensive term, I'll just say, 'not right' in his defiance of God via blaming God for giving him the woman rather than being man enough to say, I WILLFULLY DID WRONG.
Okay, you also asked, 'if I love men who are not of God so to speak?' Uhm...well, you know, the Holy Spirit gives us an 'agape' love for all humanity but as a rule, such males are a stench and an abomination.
Let's face it, you nor I want to talk to some whacked out white supremacist. We know such need God but still, we would rather avoid them like the plague. Nor, would you or I or any other believer want to have to sit and listen to some deranged, child molestor or rapist or terrorists or a myriad of other abominations speak their demonic evil.
Yet, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God so bless those who reach out to that type via the grace God has given them to handle it.
In the meantime, I have the gift of withstanding, denouncing injustice via evil beings. However, I thank God for the preachers, ministers, etc., etc. granted grace to reach that sort.
As for the 'thimble' versus 'glass of water' I'm not following you there. -
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Permalink Reply by Chaplain Pat Harris on
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Still, that said, I can passionately speak on the injustices of MALE HIERARCHIES who have wronged women and girls the world over with their purposeful MISINTERPRETATION of women in order to subjugate women NOT to the will of God rather, to the WILL OF FALLEN, 'DEMENTED' MALES.
This is what has happened and as a result, women have stayed in abusive relationships. Women have been stripped of their true 'virtuous woman' Godly ordained worth. Women have been deprived of their true Godly pronounced worth i.e. 'God blessed THEM meaning, him and HER and gave THEM i.e.him and HER rule over the Earth.
According to the scriptures, God gave THEM (male & female) dominion over the earth as equals BEFORE THE FALL (Genesis 1:27-28). But, AFTER THE FALL, it appears their equal status became null and void in Genesis 3:16 . . . "thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall have rule over thee." -
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Chaplain Harris, I remember HATING that scripture. I did everything possible to rationalize it away. I remember talking about those men who took that scripture and used it as a reason to be abusive towards women in a variety of areas. Because I hated that scripture, it colored my thoughts about both the abusive and righteous men who would use it.
Righteous men use that scripture also, but not for abuse, but for a righteous relationship with women ...Ephesians 5 men use and believe that scripture in Genesis 3
Chaplain Harris, I would "fight the good fight of faith" against those (abusive and righteous)men all the while desiring to have dominion over them to show them that scripture was null and void.
Remember this song...
"Anything you can do I can do better, I can do anything better than you"
In truth, there were many many things that I could do better than any man I knew...but that never changed the scripture ...
Genesis 3:16
I remember HATING that scripture and was so prideful that I refused to admit that I hated it.
That is the secret bitterness that is in a lot of women...not all women...not even most women...but in a LOT of women. Their secret bitterness is towards that particular passage right there.
And they will forge plans and carry them out to prove to themselves (or to God) that THAT passage is erroneous at the core. They (and I use to) find passages to prove MY point all the while, nothing I did ever changed that scripture in Genesis 3.
You can't escape the scriptures...no matter how hard you try.
That scripture is the invisible foe that a lot of women fight....the deception is that they are fighting the abusive men....or even the righteous men who dare bring up that scripture. But the truth is.... we wrestle NOT against flesh and blood. Sometimes we wrestle against just believing the scriptures as they stand and being obedient to it. -
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You are so right HOPE. I must confess, I hated that scripture as well. I wanted to believe that God was speaking ONLY to Adam and Eve. And because of my disbelief and rebellious attitude, I went through two failed marriages as well as struggling with other issues in between. This is why I have such a strong passion for married couples to remain married and truly live their lives as God originally ordained for marriage. This is also why I grieve for sisters like Dawn who refuse to allow the Holy Spirit to cleanse them of their unrighteous understanding and belief in this area of their life.
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Min. Tracy powerful testimony truly it is, However, I must admonish you, just as you have asked us not to 'judge' matters out of the bitterness you walked in, I must ask you NOT to ASSUME that every woman who speaks the truths of God are BITTER AS YOU BECAME and seeking to judge Scripture from a 'bitter' place.
Let me give Biblical examples that I hope you will pray upon. I hope you will pray upon women who are knowledgeable like Dawn and NOT MISJUDGE the intent because of the hurt you walked and judged in.
Anyway, let's take the Samaritan woman at the well whom Yahshua encountered in John 4.
The reason this woman was alone for Yahshua to speak with her in the first place was that she was the town outcast. Yes she was.
Historians tell us that the 'watering well' of which the women all went at 'noon time' to gather the water was in the 'center of town.'. Whereas, the Samaritan woman at the well, went outside of town at a isolated 'well' which is where Yahshua found her.
Why? Because the women of the town had rejected her and would not allow her to come into their midst.
However, this woman who had had '5 husbands and the man she lived with was not her husband,' was found to be more righteous in the eyes of Yahshua than all those uppity women who rejected her.
We all have read the story of her having '5 husbands and the man she lived with now was not even her husband.' However, what we don't read is that Yahshua must have known the reason why. Not only the reason why but the good heart of this woman.
Yahshua knew that this woman was worth redeeming. He knew her circumstances in detail although the Bible does not detail them. If we let the Holy Spirit teach us the IN-DEPTH meaning we learn this as Scripture tells us the 'Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth.'
It is obvious, if she had been a hardhearted, BITTER woman she would have walked away from Yahshua.
It is obvious, that though she had suffered rejection she was NOT BITTERLY SCARRED and in fact, KNEW the WORD OF GOD as she had been taught to understand it. Yahshua would CORRECT AND LEAD HER INTO THE INDEPTH MEANING THEREOF but the fact is, she was NOT resistant to RECEIVING that IN-DEPTH MEANING.
Oh yes, this was a abused woman who did not let her circumstances make her bitter. It was something about her heart and YAHSHUA KNEW IT.
In fact, there are women who may have had evil attack their lives but are NOT BITTER and are NOT trying to make Scripture conform to any given BITTERNESS rather, like the woman at the well have heard the TRUTH from YAHSHUA and have come forth to proclaim it.
Oh, there are many, many, deep, deep things of God that have been suppressed and God has called forth righteous women to proclaim it.
Like the woman at the well, we cry out, 'COME SEE A MAN WHO TOLD US ALL THINGS EVER WE DID, COULD NOT THIS BE THE CHRIST?'
The answer is, YES, THIS IS THE CHRIST HEAR YE HIM lest YOU miss out on the blessing.
Listen, their is a Rabbi Ayilah on the ONE STEP MINISTRY board. She has laid down dynamite of the word of God that would astound you. It's Hebraic teachings worthy of you looking into.
Understand, in this last hour, God is RESTORING ALL, that 'all' includes the true mentality that the believers walked in. The true oracles of truth.
When I mentioned Rabbi Ayilah's teachings it's not so much women's truths but just Biblical truths with regard to truthful meaning of any given Scripture. If God can and is putting that into context without it being BITTERNESS to do so. How much more is God doing it with regard to the true role and will for women?
Let's face it, males, wicked males did lie. It is disgusting and angers the soul but that doesn't mean women who tell the truth remain disgusted rather, by the Spirit of God we correct it and thank Him for using us.
Again, I'm sorry that your anguish took you to a place where you twisted the word of God to make it fit your bitterness. However, some of us women are first, not in bitterness and anguish, even though we have had hard knocks, but instead we are, like the 'woman at the well' speaking the truth to whosoever will simply because YAHSHUA TAUGHT US THE TRUTH ...I.E...COME SEE A MAN WHO TOLD US THESE TRUTHS, COULD NOT THIS BE THE CHRIST? -
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that word bothers you doesn't it?
I already asked you to forgive me for the offense. -
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Hi Chap Pat as I already explained to Min. Tracy, God's punishment to 'Eve' was that she would 'bare children in pain.' He did not double punish her via saying, 'you shall desire your husband but he shall take rule over you.' (Gen. 3:12).
Rather, remember Scripture tells us that 'God put His Spirit in both HER and him' (Mal. 2:15). In the garden, Scripture tells us that 'God used to come down in the cool of the day and speak with Adam and his wife.'
So when it came time for judgment God spoke with BOTH of them INDIVIDUALLY just as he was used to. One of the consequences of sin he told Adam was 'death had entered the planet.'
One of the consequences He told the woman was 'you shall desire to have EQUALITY ' as you HAD known it in the garden but things will be different. He will NOT do my original EQUALITY will rather, he will 'TAKE RULE OVER YOU' and so he has, and so he has. -
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Ms. Johnson,
. . . . .God's punishment to 'Eve' was that she would 'bare children in pain.' He did not double punish her via saying, 'you shall desire your husband but he shall take rule over you.' (Gen. 3:12).
This was not a double punishment, it was inclusive " . . .and they desire shall be to thy husband, and she shall rule over thee."
One of the consequences He told the woman was 'you shall desire to have EQUALITY ' as you HAD known it in the garden but things will be different. He will NOT do my original EQUALITY will rather, he will 'TAKE RULE OVER YOU' and so he has, and so he has.
Please give me book, chapter and verse on the above statement; I cannot locate it anywhere. What I quoted is from the King James Version of the bible. Which translation are you using for the above statement? -
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No Chap Pat, God's Genesis 3:16 pronouncement of 'the woman's desire shall be for 'equality' again but he shall have rule over thee.' is NOT a commandment of God rather, God informing the woman of one of the dangerous, deadly consequences of her actions'.
I fervently believe God cried when He told her for He, being Omniscient knew all the evil fallen males would unleash upon women. And so it is, that through the ages even to the present, satan is using fallen males to destroy women and women's true worth.
Again, God's way has always been equality that's why He gave it in the beginning (Gen. 1:26-28). After the fall had taken place God was simply warning the woman of one of the UN-NATURAL, UN-GODLY states now unleashed i.e. 'you shall WANT IT LIKE IT WAS' but NO, 'HE' under the influence of Satan and still, unrepentant and 'blaming the woman' shall take UN-NATURAL RULE OVER THEE.
That's what that is all about. The fact that it was taught just the opposite by fallen males and females believe it is EXHIBIT A. -
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Permalink Reply by Dawn Davidson on
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Sister Johnson,
You said: “Okay, you are saying, 'the woman' as she was called prior to the fall, received 'flesh' apart from Adam but she received 'bone' from Adam and Adam just erroneously, perhaps arrogantly, assumed that the 'flesh' was of him as well?” The word states that God used bone alone from Adam in creation of Eve but that it was the actual will of God for two to be of one flesh. So that when Adam speaks in Genesis 2:23, given all that we are not to merely assume in word, when he says “flesh of my flesh” word does not support the truth of it.
You said: “You are also saying that in pre-destination God foresaw the fall of Adam and the woman? In your findings, the fault lay with Adam for a variety of reasons you well pointed out on the old post you nd I spoke upon, of which I never FORGOT.” I do agree that a God having all knowledge created even in the beginning as it would be in the end. I believe He did that in order to prove his own knowledge and to confirm the wisdom and integrity of his own plan. Please don't forget sister, that Eve was ultimately also at fault for eating the fruit as well. They both fell. Anything that I have written was done so to exam the real truth of the garden and to refute the traditional teaching that it was Eve alone giving us reason for the fall. It is ok to be passionate about the fact that God made us equal but not that he made us better. That is in error in thinking.
You said: “The post, 'women are ordained to preach the gospel.' Okay, so, we know God told the serpent, 'the woman would be the one He would use to bring about redemption' (Gen. 3:15). We also know God told the woman that one of the deadly consequences of the fall would be that 'man would take UNJUST RULE OVER HER' (Gen. 3:12).” Not sure what post you are speaking about. Christ brought us Redemption but God was able to use the work of a proven just Eve in the garden to continue life for humans in the earth before a Righteous God. If based upon God’s judgment, all had ended for us in the garden, there would be no need for a work of Salvation. Due to making right confession, the female alone proved to have acceptable “seed” and “head” for the use of God in preventing our destruction. (As an aside, the female does not have a physical seed).
You said: “That Scripture has been taught as if it were the 'will of God' when in reality God was saying, 'now that this demented male has fallen satan will use him to wreak havoc upon womankind' and so satan has.” I think you are speaking about Genesis 3:16 and not Genesis 3:12. Again I must say, we must refrain from using or even expressing sentiment about one another in any debased manner, the word “demented“ is here as well.
The point of Genesis 3:12 as I see it was to acknowledge to the female what was the reality of her circumstance given the now present effect of sin, and in relation to what was the continued will of God for her in marriage to Adam, and to speak prophetically to Eve about a change that the now still stubborn Adam would one day see. I don’t believe at all (and neither should you) that God sees the man as “demented” but I do agree about the distortion of the teaching however for different reasons. I see a change that God was seeking to bring into the heart of each. An Eve who now needed to fully forgive an Adam, and an Adam who needed to humble himself, repent, and act obediently according to the will of God in marriage to Eve. Genesis 2:24 tells us that Adam was supposed to “cleave” to Eve, something that a garden Adam (as I believe) previously had not. As Adam grew to rightly “cleave” Eve would in turn allow "desire" for him as her husband to “rule” over what was otherwise in a broken heart still driving her to hate given the events of the garden. God cannot command “desire” and judges what is actually in our heart. I do not believe that God gave “rule” to a punished man (and even of the death pronouncement) “over” that of a justly confessed and therefore righteous female which he himself honored. God ceases to be God if he does this.
You said: “We can look at all the world over to see the disasterous state of affairs of women. Beaten down, raped, murdered, violated in unspeakable ways in all the nations of the world. Are you then saying this has something to do with the corrupt flesh of Adam versus what? The different 'flesh' of the woman? Do tell?” Not at all and nor would I ever. You and I can act even as an Adam if we elect to walk independently of God. God is no respecter of persons and it is not right to seek to do to men what has been done to us. God judges the heart, and the heart is neither male or female. We are just as wrong before God to do it but even more so given that it already wrongly happened to us and even having cried out to God because of it.
A God who is no respecter of persons symbolically created in the garden. That means what was true for an Eve is only true for other people, whether male or female, if they too choose to humble themselves and make right confession of sin before God as did she. It has nothing to do with gender, God created us equally, he loves us all, and it is his desire that we all be saved.
I think you need to remember, that men may have been used by the enemy in this, but they are not the enemy, and they are not even of the enemy. And while because it is word (I speak of the garden word) we must recognize what the truth is, it has not been purposed by God to be used as a weapon against either the male or the female but to render us to be of sound and sober mind about who God really is and who we in comparison to him, and even in relationship one to another, are not. -
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