The so called church! HINT!!! HINT!!!

[Prophet Dr. Arroyo B. Sanders]

Any church that says they're all about LOVE but yet tell the people in the church to ignore, not to talk to, or not to have anything to do with someone if that person is no longer affiliated with their ministry needs to reevaluate who and what Jesus is all about!

Did Jesus leave you out or kicked you to the curve because you walked away from Him?

We need to stop teaching this mess in the House of God and teach the BIBLE not our own doctrine or feelings. How can you be about love and don't know how to walk in it? People visit your ministries and you have the nerve to turn your noses up at them because they decided to follow God and not your mess!

God operates in unity, not division! So who are you working for because only the enemy operates in causing division and confusion among the Believers of Christ!!!

Don't we know these are God's children and not ours! To mislead one is on our hands and you dare to judge, sentence, and condemn someone because you don't agree with them or you got your little feelings hurt in the process by something they said or done.

The Bible tells us to judge righteously by the Word of God not according to our own fleshly feelings. This is when we get into trouble. So the questions is, are we teaching the Word of God (The Bible) or are we teaching our flesh (our selfish will/thinking)?

Jesus Christ was talked about, lied on, beat, spit on, etc and still died and love us all regardless of what we did. And you got the nerves to look down on someone and try to gather supporters to support your mess! Sounds like what Lucifer/satan did before he got kicked out of heaven. HINT! HINT! HINT!

Come on people, it's time to put childish things away and be about our Father's business. Besides,

WE SHOULDN'T THROW STONES WHEN WE LIVE IN GLASS HOUSES OURSELVES UNLESS WE ARE READY TO FACE THE OUTCOME AND DEAL WITH IT IN A GODLY WAY!

MORE TO COME ON THIS SUBJECT!!!!!

[A.W. Bowman]

Love it! Bring it on, brother.

[HOPE - Psalm 43:5]

I Corinthians 5:1-5 - wayward church member was excommunicated for immorality (having his father's wife)

2 Corinthians 2:6-8 - when he repented he was restored to the fellowship. Paul says to "reaffirm your love for him"

And Paul also warns of walking in unforgiveness - 2 Cor 2:9-11

Restoration didn't come until after there was repentance... just like it is with us and the Lord.

The purpose of church discipline or ANY discipline for that matter is first love for that person in hopes of restoration or reconciliation.

Without love, your judgment of another person in sin is nothing more than hypocrisy and self-righteousness.

[Prophet Dr. Arroyo B. Sanders]

"Teach to ignore, not to talk to, or not to have anything to do with someone if that person is no longer affiliated with their ministry"

Now first off where, in the message above does it talk about "church discipline or ANY discipline."

Now what you wrote is correct. If the person is in sin with a unrepeated heart with no intent to change there is discipline issues that should be carried out.

However, in the case of just teaching that if someone leave on their own terms, disconnects their fellowship, or leave from under their covering that you should not talk to them any longer or show love to them is wrong and not in the Bible at all.

God's love never turns from you rather in sin or not. He may turn His back towards your sin but you are still His and He stills make sure you find your way back to Him in forgiveness. This was the reason He sent His Son to DIE for us... because He LOVE us UNCONDITIONALLY!!!

To say that if a person decide that their time is up and being led to leave your membership/fellowship that the people that are still with you shouldn't talk or have anything to do with that person is ignorance, stupid, and doesn't have Jesus no where in it.

Now, if your daughter/son, decides to move out of your home. Would you tell the rest of the family in the house not to talk or associate with him/her?

[HOPE - Psalm 43:5]

Bro. Sanders, my point was not to teach people to just ignore someone or be unloving towards them.... I did not mention to ignore them if they just leave... I was talking about a person in unrepentent sin like the man in Corinth.

As far as "church discipline".. well that term is not used in scripture but is most definitely demonstrated as I pointed out in I and 2 Corinthians.

And Paul was basically giving the same instructions that Jesus gave in Matt 18:15-20. There were stages or steps to follow when dealing with the brethren "caught in a fault". Each stage was for the loving purpose of reconciling that person back into fellowship.

The last stage is vs 17.... treat them like a heathen or a publican... but the "church" must be in "agreement" to do so... the "church" must be in agreement with what type of behavior that they will NOT allow (binding) or WILL allow (loosing) within the congregation. And heaven will be a witness and support of that agreement as long as it is according to God's word.

But even at that point, (vs 17) it is enacting a disciplinary action on a person who refuses to change no matter how much the body of Believers tries to engage them and confront them.

If there is no "church discipline" then there would be chaos in the church... no rules and no consequences for breaking them... now what would that be like? You can't even work on a job without having consequences for violating policy and procedures.

But if a person just leaves the fellowship on their own, the people shouldnt be taught not to fellowship with them just because they left the "church". I mean what if I decided to move my membership somewhere else... would that mean that no one in my former church should talk to me? That's ludacris! But unfortunately, I've actually experienced that. Not only did I experience that but I couldn't even go back and visit because folk was upset that I decided to leave. I was considered an "outsider".

When you are no longer welcome in a place... just shake the dust off your feet, forgive the offense and keep on keepin' on! Don't hold on to the offense because then YOU are in danger of not having your sins forgiven.....Luke 6:37

[Prophet Dr. Arroyo B. Sanders]

Yes, Sis. Hope I agree with you 100%! I also agreed with your previous reply as well. The church discipline should be there, that is the reason God placed an order in the house.

It also the reason that more true men/women of God needs to stand up and speak out against all the foolishness that has been going on in the assemblies of God's believers.

I am definitely with you when you are right! Your 7th paragraph touched exactly what I am speaking on concerning what these so called leaders are teaching in the Body of Christ. It has to come to a stop! But it is going to take TRUE men/women of God who are not moved by people or their reactions to study the actual WORD of God and not move by the flesh or what they think/want it to be or mean.

Let STAND up for CHRIST actually mean just that! We don't have to add or take away from it to be anymore POWERFUL than it already is.

[HOPE - Psalm 43:5]

You know what, I've always wondered what a congregation would do if their superstar pastor was caught in a sin and refused to change... for example if a Joel Osteen or Bishop Jakes just refused to stop doing something that is clearly sinful. Would the leaders in that congregation execute Matt 18 or I Cor 5. They'll do it in a heartbeat for the unknown leader but someone who is famous either citywide or nationally...

What I've seen here in Houston is a group of Pastors, I call them the "Good Ole Boys Network". They all hired these very beautiful personal assistants, dumped their wives and married the assistants and the wives were either removed from or just left the church because it was unbearable being there. One church had a church split over it. I mean members were hurt for YEARS behind their pastor's actions. They were like scattered sheep. Some of the other churches, didn't miss a beat. None of the pastors apologized to the congregations either via a letter or an email or standing before them.. nothing. For them it was "this is my personal life and none of your business" Now, its water under the bridge.

I guess what disappointed me so was that one of these Pastors had my friend who had gotten pregnant out of wedlock... he had her stand in front of the congregation and apologize to the church for getting pregnant and yet his adultery was.. "private" *sigh*.

This convo reminded me of this situation and the Lord just let me know that I have held that offense buried in me for years. Maybe I stumbled upon your discussion just so the Lord could show me that I need to forgive that Pastor. It's funny how we move forward but never actually forgive... (we just forget)

God's love is so amazing! Thank you, Lord for bringing the offense to the surface!

[Prophet Dr. Arroyo B. Sanders]

Just keep watching because God is going to pull the covers from over all these big time preachers who claim to be doing EXACTLY what God called them to do and to SAY! Some of it is already happen and more to come. For alot of these, what men call "mega" ministries will fall and all of the "in the dark/behind the close door" things are going to come to light.

I just pray that we all repeat before hand because it's going to be very ugly!!!!

[HOPE - Psalm 43:5]

You now, I'm not necessarily against a mega ministry because thousands were converted in a day in Acts and it was repeated. So those "thousands" had to be ministered to. And even Christ preached to 3k and 5k so a mega ministry isn't as bad just because it is large. It will just have a larger scale of issues that a small church would have.

I have known people who abhore mega churches just because they can't have a personal relationship with the Pastor. Well not everyone could get to Jesus... the apostles couldn't minister to everyone all the time. My question to them would be are they there for the word or to be buddy buddy with the Pastor? One thing I have known mega churches to do is have cell groups or small groups to meet the needs of the people. Kinda like what Moses' father-in-law recommended. After all, Moses "pastored" a "mega" church. Can you imagine trying to get an appointment with Moses back then? LOL

[Prophet Dr. Arroyo B. Sanders]

Well Sis. it doesn't take thousands of people to make a "mega" ministry. For the Bible says, "Where two or more are gathered in My Name..." and "One can put away a thousand, two can put away ten thousand..."

Our definition of mega may be numbers but God's definition is when you gather in His Name.

Without Him, it's just the Valley of Dry (Dead) Bones!

The majority of miracles Jesus did, He only had 3 other people with Him!

[HOPE - Psalm 43:5]

But don't discount His preaching to thousands apart from HIs miracles with a crowd of two or three.

How were those thousands of converts discipled? And can we pattern our church "programs" after what we see in the word.

[Prophet Dr. Arroyo B. Sanders]

True but the preaching didn't make it mega nor the people.

[Evangelist Altha Fugett]

Not knowing exactly what you are referring to, I must say that ones leave a church for two reasons, for further growth, which is fine or because of a disagreement. In any case love is to abound.

I agree with HOPE and the scripture 1Cor 5:1-5, we as the Body of Christ, hate the sin, but not the sinner, as Christ was God's Son on the Cross, God turned HIS FACE from him, because of our sins HE took on, because he loved us.

Disassociation however hurtful, can save ones life, being confronted with opposition to their lifestyles