Polygamy... Is it scriptural, or does Yah forbid such?

[James Pierce]

What speakest thou?

[keith]

James, Can you not give me the courtesy of responding to my posts. I have already refuted your flawed interpretation of Deut 21, Ex 21, 2Sam 12.

If you need help ask your senior pastor, moreh or friends.

But at least you also agree with me that lack of punishment does not equal lawfulness. Trevor believes if someone is not punished for an act then the act is acceptable to our Holy Father (path to destruction).

If you need help responding ask for it. You started the thread. If you are done let me know.

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

James,

If rules are not obeyed, are there not consequences (punishment) for disobedience?

The rules in Deut. 21 fall under the category of Civil Laws which Moses implemented to help the people live in harmony with one another. If man had been able to live perfectly under the Ten Commandments, the Civil Laws would not have been necessary.

[keith]

James now wishes to question me and has not answered responded to any of my posts with any scripture. He wishes to play the role of teacher. So be it.

Have you not read that he who committs a sin transgresses against The Most High YAH?

I will entertain your questions hopefully you will give me the same courtesy.

Father YAH forbids polygamy Lev 18:18 dead sea scrolls and Ge 2:24. It is a transgression.

[Elder Max Spiegel]

Well in the begining it wasn't so. Matthew 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
Matthew 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Matthew 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh.

So God design was for one man one woman. The first time we read in the WORD about more than one wife is in the line of sinful Cain. Genesis 4:19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

Thank you Elder Spiegel:

The first time we read in the WORD about more than one wife is in the line of sinful Cain. Genesis 4:19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah

This proves the point I made earlier on this thread, man instituted polygamy not God.

I've had many comments slammed in my face that there are no scriptures stating God forbid polygamy and that it is a cultural lifestyle. Yet, no one wanted to admit the fact that God did not institute this lifestyle either.

[James Pierce]

Chaplain,

The point really is: Yah has given instructions to men who have several wives. Yah did not say divorce them, or put one away. He simply gave instructions on how to maintain the relations of having 2 wives. If Yah was simply against polygamy, He would have told man to only take one wife. Keith uses Genesis 2:24 to refute polygamy, but that does not refute it. Genesis 2:24 is not an imperative command, for all men will not leave his parents and get married. Genesis 2:24 is a picture of what will when a man "decides" to get married.

[keith]

Ge 2:24 is what marriage is to Father YAH. Anything else is not a marriage. It is transgression.

Oh by the way here again is my refutation of your interpretation of 2Sam 12. Please read:

2 Sam 12:7-8 is simple. Please open your heart and mind and remove personal feelings and animosity towards a culture be it western eastern northern middle eastern or otherwise.

Was this statement 2Sa 12:7 KJV - And Nathan said to David, Thou [art] the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;

2Sa 12:8 KJV - And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if [that had been] too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

given to all of Israel or just to David. In other words on Judgement day will a persons answer be "king David was promised multiple wives so I thought I could have multiple wives too". I think the answer is obvious. This statement or promise was for David and David alone. But I am not yielding to ypur point

David was promised multiple wives so having multiple wives is ok. Which of Sauls wives did David marry? Lev 18:17 speaks against marrying a mother and daughter. Saul had a concubine as well, did he marry her?

More importantly read this story:
King Z was at war with King Y. King Z defeated King Y. King Z then takes over the kingdom of King Y. Does not King Z own everything in that King Y had. Yes. He owns his cat, dog, toilet paper, horses, mother, father, grass, wells and wives, to do with as he pleases. A wife to King Y can easily be killed, sold into slavery, etc, etc,.

The point of the prophecy is that everything that Saul owned David now owned.

I am making too many posts I know. But I am trying to respond to the typical polygamy/polygyny believing persons. I did not say practicing polygamists/polygynists. Just those who say its ok because The Most High "never said anything against it".

[James Pierce]

Keith,

You have not refuted my points. One problem you have now is your attitude, but beyond that, read Deut 21. It gives instructions about a man who has 2 wives. If Yah was actually against polygamy, then why give instructions concerning the maintaining of it?

[keith]

Please forgive me if I have offended you. I will copy and paste my prior refutation of Deut 21. Please read:

Deut 21: 15-17
Please read S. E. Dwight "The Hebrew Wife" pages 20-22.

Here again this verse is not saying take two wives then do not mistreat the children of your first wife because you do not like her.

The verse:Deu 21:15 KJV - If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, [both] the beloved and the hated; and [if] the firstborn son be hers that was hated:

Deu 21:16 KJV - Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit [that] which he hath, [that] he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, [which is indeed] the firstborn:

Deu 21:17 KJV - But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated [for] the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he [is] the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn [is] his.

The correct reading is If a man has had two wives. Also where is the statement by The Father, when you take two wives do not mistreat ....) If you say he is legislating polygamy, The Father also legislated harlotry. Now is harlotry permitted? No. See Deut 23:17-18 (especially 18- harlotry is regulated, so its ok right?)

I know thius is difficult for some to believe as they have been tainted by middle eastern and african culture. The bible is not a middle eastern or any other culture. It is The Most High's culture. He defined marriage in Ge 2:24. Do not deviate. Just as the sabbath was ordained in Ge 2:1-3.

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

Good points Bro. Keith:

Allow me to re-post as well:

The rules in Deut. 21 fall under the category of Civil Laws which Moses implemented to help the people live in harmony with one another. If man had been able to live perfectly under the Ten Commandments, the Civil Laws would not have been necessary.

[keith]

There are other points that can be made about this verse. For I expect James will reject the translation, as he probably should ( he strongly feels polygamy is ok by Father YAH).

Keep in mind I believe keeping the ten commandments is as easy as waking up in the morning (Father YAH willing) and getting out of bed.

[James Pierce]

Keith,

In both the Masoretic Text & Septuagint.. the text renders "if a man has two wives", and not past tense at all. You mentioned something about halotry. Yah condemned halotry of course, and cult prostitues for their prostitution. They are fornicators, and that is what Yah condemns. Deut 23 does not permit it.. it condemns it. The scriptures your post, Keith, really, has nothing to do with condemning or allowing polygamy whatsoever. This is not reasonable dialogue.