Women are ordained by GOD to preach the gospel!
The Bible teaches that, "Truth crushed to the ground is rising again!" (Ps. 85:11 PP). A part of that truth that is springing forth from the earth is the truth about God and women. Scripture tells us that the 'the letter killeth, the spirit giveth life' (2 Cor. 3:6). A lot of things are written in Scripture that seemingly forbid women participation in the church. However, research has found that Paul's words were taken out of context and in fact, had more to do with protocol going on in the newly established churches of that time.
In the meantime, God's wisdom has taught me many things with regard to His will for women. The first thing taught is that God's will was always for 'men and women' to speak and Glorify His name everywhere, including in the church. Let us remember the original word from God concerning 'Adam/man' and 'Adam/woman' (Note:Scripture tells us that God originally referred to the man and woman as 'Adam' (Gen. 5:2) Adam then called the 'woman,' 'woman' and God honored that (Gen. 2:23-24). It was only after the fall that the 'woman' was named 'Eve' (Gen. 3:20). Talk about the '3 faces of Eve,' eh?
At any rate, the original will of God was 'equality' for man and woman. Scripture tells us that 'God put His Spirit in both WOMEN and men' (Mal. 2:15). As so, if the spirit of the Living God abides in women just as it does in men then it is impossible that God would mean, 'women can't speak or preach in church' for how else can one express the power, might, glory of God but by speaking it?
Where else can we glorify God amongst our own but in the church? Besides, Scripture says, 'the body is the temple of the Lord' and therefore we must glorify God in our 'Temple/body.' How much more shall we glorify God amidst a united temple of believers who dwell in church buildings? (1 Cor. 3:16). It is wrong to teach otherwise. The original command was 'God blessed, 'THEM', not just HIM but HER as well and stated, 'have dominion (subdue with kindness) the Earth and all that is therein" (Gen. 1:26-28). That's 'dominion' over the Earth and NOT each other.
Now, that said, the function of men and women is quite different. Masculinity does act as a figure head, that Femininity just naturally yields to within a marriage setting. I cannot tell you how many women want to feel protected with a strong, intelligent, righteous man. Unfortunately, with men so screwed up today, they are going to stay in 'want.'
At any rate, this function is proper in a marriage setting alone. Amidst that setting, the woman enjoys playing the nurturer, co-counselor in all 'decision' making aspects for Scripture says, 'it was not good for man to be alone' (Gen. 2:18). What that means is, not only physically alone, but as well alone, in making decisions. Hence, God would emphasize the importance of the woman's role when God brought His creation 'woman' to man. He more or less told Adam, 'now listen, you've been enjoying naming animals and the such, but now, this wonderful creation 'woman' is not for you to 'take authority over' in the sense that you have had the joy of naming animals I brought to you. She is now co-namer of all things with you. She is your equal and you must listen and heed her wisdom as that which is as great and important to your survival than your own thinking. In fact, she is your survival, your 'helper!' You cannot mentally, spiritually, etc, function right without her wise input!' (Gen. 2:24).
God seemed to instinctively know that He would have to strongly get that point across to the man as if he didn't, trouble would surely, erupt. Through the subsequent actions with regard to the 'fall', we see God was right to emphasize the importance of equality. That is, the first thing Adam did after the fall was 'blame' 'God and the woman.' He stated, 'it was that WOMAN that YOU gave me who is responsible for this' (Gen. 3:12).
That un-repentant mindset of Adam was passed down to men and to this day, men 'blame and fault' women for the wrongs of the world. Women in Scripture have always been portrayed from a negative perspective. In fact, women have been lied upon and blasphemed (Rev. 13:6).
For instance, Mary Magdalene has always been portrayed as a 'prostitute' when research now tells us that she was not. The same thing with 'Rahab'. Research now finds out that her alleged 'prostitution' was in reality, idol worship. Yeah sure, that Philistine woman, Delilah seduced Samson but he was just as guilty for going after that worldly type of woman in the first place. However, preachers curse her more than Samson's stupid, downright ridiculously flaunted 'worldly' behavior amidst being spirit-filled. (Jud. 13-16).
At any rate, back to the 'fall' and the different mentality that was about the man versus the woman. The woman fessed up to her wrongs. She admitted that she willfully listened to the deceiving serpent (Gen. 3:13). In so doing, she left no un-repentant ground for Satan to use. This is why righteous women throughout Scripture have always been the first to know of, and proclaim the might of God. Just look at the case of Samson's mother. The angel came to her, and she preached the truth to her husband, who doubted and was later visited by the angel (Judg. 13:2-25).
God's spirit was in Deborah and she was 'Judge' of all Israel (Judgs. 4). This truth alone, proves that God could not have meant that 'women shouldn't preach' as this woman not only preached, but led the whole nation.
Remember, Scripture says, 'God is the same today, yesterday and forever' (Heb. 13:8). Meaning, He did not mean for only these women of Old Testament Biblical history to lead and preach. Just look at the greatest miracle in American history, the woman Harriet Tubman. She bore witness that God raised 'HER' up. 19 times she went into the south and freed groups of God's enslaved people and 19 times, she successfully came out with men, women and children. No man, equalled what this valiant woman of God did. See then, God through his 'actions' is teaching us that 'He uses whom He will and His will is for women to preach, teach, prophesy and do exploits.' (Dn. 11:32).
Also, because of the King Barack's 'doubt and fear' during the reign of Deborah, the spirit of the Lord used the might and strength of the woman Jael to shame the 'man's' weakness and fear. Yes, Jael is the 'woman' song and praised throughout the ages for bringing down the enemy King Sisera (4:17-24). Can we hear a "Michele's in the white house representing?" :-)
Again, God's spirit is in both men and WOMEN and niether were meant to be constrained via demented males purposely misinterpreting the role of women. Male's misinterpretation stifled and destroyed many a good woman. Also, let us remember that God's testimony is, 'I hate divorce (Mal. 2:15). Yet, out of love and concern for women God allowed divorce in order to stop men from destroying women (Mal. 2:15).
In other words, 'divorce' was a gifted weapon from God to women. Fallen male's treatment of women can destroy the woman's role and function and so wreak havoc on planet earth. This happened in the past and it is happening today. In fact, it is prophesied that the anti-Christ will have no 'desire for women' (Dn. 11:37).
It is the spirit of Satan working through the hardhearted, un-repented mindset of fallen males. That 'Adam-ic' 'blame God and women' mentality is seen in males mistreatment of women worldwide. See, when Adam did not take responsibility for what he did, that part of his mindset became 'corrupted fertile ground.' As a result, Satan has had a field day using males to destroy God's precious creation, woman.
Just look at the so-called religion of Islam. The woman is oppressed and sorely afflicted. In Africa, the woman is chattel. The same with Asian nations. The male's warped, twisted mindset with regard to women keeps women and those nations steeped in darkness, chaos, destruction and death. This is the state of mind Adam unleashed for Satan to abuse when he did not repent of his evil participation in the fall and instead, 'blamed God and the woman' (Gen. 3:12).
Yet, we saw God's remedy towards Adam's action of standing there allowing the woman to be deceived (Gen. 3:1-8). God stepped in as husband to the woman and stood the ground that Adam should have stood by immediately expelling the serpent. At any rate, the serpent thought God's wrath would be upon the woman. However, instead, God stood up for the woman and informed the serpent that He too, would use the same trusting nature of the woman to bring down Satan's evil that he had just pulled off. In other words, God is proclaiming, "He still loves and cherishes the magnificent 'woman' He created."
However, let me say this, God did warn the woman of one of the consequences of her disobedience, he stated with regard to her husband Adam, 'your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall have rule over you' (Gen. 3:16). Male preachers have erroneously taught that that means God was giving the man 'rule over the woman.' However, reality is, God was warning the woman that the once 'equality' relationship she had with her husband in the garden was now 'destroyed'. The man would take 'illegal' rule over the woman. She would think or desire to be like it once was, but it was no more.
At any rate, God would use a woman to bring forth the redeemer to get back what Adam had just given away (Gen. 3:15). God would also 'put enmity' between Satan and the woman. Meaning, though Satan now had fertile ground to use the man's un-repentant state, the righteous women throughout the ages would be the key vessels used by the Most High to destroy the works of the devil.
Hence, we are told of mighty women used by God. There was Miriam the prophetess and leader of Israel right along with her brother Aaron and Moses. (Ex. 15:20; Mic. 6:4; etc.). Ruth and Naomi would come forth obediently setting the stage for the birth of King David who would be a type of Christ (Ruth 4:13-22). Esther would come forth and be the vessel God would use to stop a satanic genocide (Est.). Rahab a gentile African woman would be used to destroy idolatrous Canaanite factions (Josh. 2). Etc.
On and on the list would go of women being used mightily by God. As well, prophecy says in the last days, 'God would pour out His spirit on our sons and DAUGHTERS' (Joel 2:28-29). God said, the 'daughters' i.e. females i.e women would prophesy.' Well how can women prophesy i.e speak the profound truths of God if they are not allowed to 'speak or preach' in the church? Besides, in the New Testament this prophecy was fulfilled as Scripture makes mention of the 4 DAUGHTERS of Phillip 'prophesying' (Acts 21:9; 2:17). Again, the 'letter' i.e. 'written word' killeth but the Spirit through it 'actions' towards women gives life and truth with regard to God's will for women.
As so, on Pentacost, the Holy Spirit sure didn't believe women couldn't preach as the Holy Spirit came upon men and WOMEN and both were heard to be speaking the wisdom of God (Acts 2:17).
Not only that, prior to pentacost it was 'women' who were the first to know of, and speak the might and praises of God with regard to the Messiah's entrance on planet earth. Whereas, disobedient man was unaware of what was going on with regard to prophecy. Just read Luke's account of Elizabeth and Mary whose Hebrew name is Miriam. (Luke 1:39-56;) The fact is, the man Zachariah was stricken deaf and dumb for his 'unbelief' but not so, with the women. They with a loud voice, proclaimed, preached, annouced, and praised God before all of heaven for the miracle messiah that was now on Earth residing in the womb of young Mary/Miriam (Lk. 1:18-25).
Also, know this, it was women alone, who were the FIRST to know of the resurrected Christ (Matt. 28:1-11). It was none other than angels of the Most High, and Jesus himself, who commanded 'WOMEN' in the form of Mary Magdalene and the other 'women' to PREACH the first resurrection message (Mk. 16:1-8). The fact is, the might and righteousness of women gave them the strength to go to the tomb with intent to fulfill the Hebrew burial laws of God come what may, soldiers or no soldiers.
Whereas, the men were all cowardly hidden away. However, the women's fearless strength caused them to be the FIRST to PREACH of the resurrection. How then can preacher's erroneously preach that 'women must be silent, can't speak or preach?' The fact is, Paul must, have meant something else as he himself, often commended women preachers.
There was priscilla who was called an apostle right along with her husband (Acts 18:2, 18.26; Rom. 16:3). Phoebe was called a 'servant' but the Greek word for 'servant' was 'minister or preacher' (Rom. 1:16). Oh, and what happened to the many women on Pentacost who were baptized in the Holy Spirit? (Acts 2:17). Do you think they just kept silent after that day? No! It would have been a sin if they had. Instead, they too, went forth 'preaching and teaching.' We know that there were active spiritual groups run by women as Paul came upon the woman Lydia (Acts 16:14). Of a surety, she and the women with her were baptized in the Holy Spirit (Acts. 16:14-15).
In all these matters, please know of a certainty, that the 'letter' of the word taught erroneously has been a violation of God's will with regard to women. Women, like men, were ordained by Jesus/Yahshua Himself, to "go into all the world and PREACH' the gospel' (Mk. 16:15-18).
Bottom line, as all are baptized in the Holy Spirit, then 'all,' meaning both men and 'women,' should preach the word of God to a lost and dying world. We should not forsake the assemblying of ourselves together. We must come together as righteous men and WOMEN to preach, teach, prophesy within the church (Heb. 10:25).. It is the will of God. As such,, who can withstand it and prevail?!
In the meantime, God's wisdom has taught me many things with regard to His will for women. The first thing taught is that God's will was always for 'men and women' to speak and Glorify His name everywhere, including in the church. Let us remember the original word from God concerning 'Adam/man' and 'Adam/woman' (Note:Scripture tells us that God originally referred to the man and woman as 'Adam' (Gen. 5:2) Adam then called the 'woman,' 'woman' and God honored that (Gen. 2:23-24). It was only after the fall that the 'woman' was named 'Eve' (Gen. 3:20). Talk about the '3 faces of Eve,' eh?
At any rate, the original will of God was 'equality' for man and woman. Scripture tells us that 'God put His Spirit in both WOMEN and men' (Mal. 2:15). As so, if the spirit of the Living God abides in women just as it does in men then it is impossible that God would mean, 'women can't speak or preach in church' for how else can one express the power, might, glory of God but by speaking it?
Where else can we glorify God amongst our own but in the church? Besides, Scripture says, 'the body is the temple of the Lord' and therefore we must glorify God in our 'Temple/body.' How much more shall we glorify God amidst a united temple of believers who dwell in church buildings? (1 Cor. 3:16). It is wrong to teach otherwise. The original command was 'God blessed, 'THEM', not just HIM but HER as well and stated, 'have dominion (subdue with kindness) the Earth and all that is therein" (Gen. 1:26-28). That's 'dominion' over the Earth and NOT each other.
Now, that said, the function of men and women is quite different. Masculinity does act as a figure head, that Femininity just naturally yields to within a marriage setting. I cannot tell you how many women want to feel protected with a strong, intelligent, righteous man. Unfortunately, with men so screwed up today, they are going to stay in 'want.'
At any rate, this function is proper in a marriage setting alone. Amidst that setting, the woman enjoys playing the nurturer, co-counselor in all 'decision' making aspects for Scripture says, 'it was not good for man to be alone' (Gen. 2:18). What that means is, not only physically alone, but as well alone, in making decisions. Hence, God would emphasize the importance of the woman's role when God brought His creation 'woman' to man. He more or less told Adam, 'now listen, you've been enjoying naming animals and the such, but now, this wonderful creation 'woman' is not for you to 'take authority over' in the sense that you have had the joy of naming animals I brought to you. She is now co-namer of all things with you. She is your equal and you must listen and heed her wisdom as that which is as great and important to your survival than your own thinking. In fact, she is your survival, your 'helper!' You cannot mentally, spiritually, etc, function right without her wise input!' (Gen. 2:24).
God seemed to instinctively know that He would have to strongly get that point across to the man as if he didn't, trouble would surely, erupt. Through the subsequent actions with regard to the 'fall', we see God was right to emphasize the importance of equality. That is, the first thing Adam did after the fall was 'blame' 'God and the woman.' He stated, 'it was that WOMAN that YOU gave me who is responsible for this' (Gen. 3:12).
That un-repentant mindset of Adam was passed down to men and to this day, men 'blame and fault' women for the wrongs of the world. Women in Scripture have always been portrayed from a negative perspective. In fact, women have been lied upon and blasphemed (Rev. 13:6).
For instance, Mary Magdalene has always been portrayed as a 'prostitute' when research now tells us that she was not. The same thing with 'Rahab'. Research now finds out that her alleged 'prostitution' was in reality, idol worship. Yeah sure, that Philistine woman, Delilah seduced Samson but he was just as guilty for going after that worldly type of woman in the first place. However, preachers curse her more than Samson's stupid, downright ridiculously flaunted 'worldly' behavior amidst being spirit-filled. (Jud. 13-16).
At any rate, back to the 'fall' and the different mentality that was about the man versus the woman. The woman fessed up to her wrongs. She admitted that she willfully listened to the deceiving serpent (Gen. 3:13). In so doing, she left no un-repentant ground for Satan to use. This is why righteous women throughout Scripture have always been the first to know of, and proclaim the might of God. Just look at the case of Samson's mother. The angel came to her, and she preached the truth to her husband, who doubted and was later visited by the angel (Judg. 13:2-25).
God's spirit was in Deborah and she was 'Judge' of all Israel (Judgs. 4). This truth alone, proves that God could not have meant that 'women shouldn't preach' as this woman not only preached, but led the whole nation.
Remember, Scripture says, 'God is the same today, yesterday and forever' (Heb. 13:8). Meaning, He did not mean for only these women of Old Testament Biblical history to lead and preach. Just look at the greatest miracle in American history, the woman Harriet Tubman. She bore witness that God raised 'HER' up. 19 times she went into the south and freed groups of God's enslaved people and 19 times, she successfully came out with men, women and children. No man, equalled what this valiant woman of God did. See then, God through his 'actions' is teaching us that 'He uses whom He will and His will is for women to preach, teach, prophesy and do exploits.' (Dn. 11:32).
Also, because of the King Barack's 'doubt and fear' during the reign of Deborah, the spirit of the Lord used the might and strength of the woman Jael to shame the 'man's' weakness and fear. Yes, Jael is the 'woman' song and praised throughout the ages for bringing down the enemy King Sisera (4:17-24). Can we hear a "Michele's in the white house representing?" :-)
Again, God's spirit is in both men and WOMEN and niether were meant to be constrained via demented males purposely misinterpreting the role of women. Male's misinterpretation stifled and destroyed many a good woman. Also, let us remember that God's testimony is, 'I hate divorce (Mal. 2:15). Yet, out of love and concern for women God allowed divorce in order to stop men from destroying women (Mal. 2:15).
In other words, 'divorce' was a gifted weapon from God to women. Fallen male's treatment of women can destroy the woman's role and function and so wreak havoc on planet earth. This happened in the past and it is happening today. In fact, it is prophesied that the anti-Christ will have no 'desire for women' (Dn. 11:37).
It is the spirit of Satan working through the hardhearted, un-repented mindset of fallen males. That 'Adam-ic' 'blame God and women' mentality is seen in males mistreatment of women worldwide. See, when Adam did not take responsibility for what he did, that part of his mindset became 'corrupted fertile ground.' As a result, Satan has had a field day using males to destroy God's precious creation, woman.
Just look at the so-called religion of Islam. The woman is oppressed and sorely afflicted. In Africa, the woman is chattel. The same with Asian nations. The male's warped, twisted mindset with regard to women keeps women and those nations steeped in darkness, chaos, destruction and death. This is the state of mind Adam unleashed for Satan to abuse when he did not repent of his evil participation in the fall and instead, 'blamed God and the woman' (Gen. 3:12).
Yet, we saw God's remedy towards Adam's action of standing there allowing the woman to be deceived (Gen. 3:1-8). God stepped in as husband to the woman and stood the ground that Adam should have stood by immediately expelling the serpent. At any rate, the serpent thought God's wrath would be upon the woman. However, instead, God stood up for the woman and informed the serpent that He too, would use the same trusting nature of the woman to bring down Satan's evil that he had just pulled off. In other words, God is proclaiming, "He still loves and cherishes the magnificent 'woman' He created."
However, let me say this, God did warn the woman of one of the consequences of her disobedience, he stated with regard to her husband Adam, 'your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall have rule over you' (Gen. 3:16). Male preachers have erroneously taught that that means God was giving the man 'rule over the woman.' However, reality is, God was warning the woman that the once 'equality' relationship she had with her husband in the garden was now 'destroyed'. The man would take 'illegal' rule over the woman. She would think or desire to be like it once was, but it was no more.
At any rate, God would use a woman to bring forth the redeemer to get back what Adam had just given away (Gen. 3:15). God would also 'put enmity' between Satan and the woman. Meaning, though Satan now had fertile ground to use the man's un-repentant state, the righteous women throughout the ages would be the key vessels used by the Most High to destroy the works of the devil.
Hence, we are told of mighty women used by God. There was Miriam the prophetess and leader of Israel right along with her brother Aaron and Moses. (Ex. 15:20; Mic. 6:4; etc.). Ruth and Naomi would come forth obediently setting the stage for the birth of King David who would be a type of Christ (Ruth 4:13-22). Esther would come forth and be the vessel God would use to stop a satanic genocide (Est.). Rahab a gentile African woman would be used to destroy idolatrous Canaanite factions (Josh. 2). Etc.
On and on the list would go of women being used mightily by God. As well, prophecy says in the last days, 'God would pour out His spirit on our sons and DAUGHTERS' (Joel 2:28-29). God said, the 'daughters' i.e. females i.e women would prophesy.' Well how can women prophesy i.e speak the profound truths of God if they are not allowed to 'speak or preach' in the church? Besides, in the New Testament this prophecy was fulfilled as Scripture makes mention of the 4 DAUGHTERS of Phillip 'prophesying' (Acts 21:9; 2:17). Again, the 'letter' i.e. 'written word' killeth but the Spirit through it 'actions' towards women gives life and truth with regard to God's will for women.
As so, on Pentacost, the Holy Spirit sure didn't believe women couldn't preach as the Holy Spirit came upon men and WOMEN and both were heard to be speaking the wisdom of God (Acts 2:17).
Not only that, prior to pentacost it was 'women' who were the first to know of, and speak the might and praises of God with regard to the Messiah's entrance on planet earth. Whereas, disobedient man was unaware of what was going on with regard to prophecy. Just read Luke's account of Elizabeth and Mary whose Hebrew name is Miriam. (Luke 1:39-56;) The fact is, the man Zachariah was stricken deaf and dumb for his 'unbelief' but not so, with the women. They with a loud voice, proclaimed, preached, annouced, and praised God before all of heaven for the miracle messiah that was now on Earth residing in the womb of young Mary/Miriam (Lk. 1:18-25).
Also, know this, it was women alone, who were the FIRST to know of the resurrected Christ (Matt. 28:1-11). It was none other than angels of the Most High, and Jesus himself, who commanded 'WOMEN' in the form of Mary Magdalene and the other 'women' to PREACH the first resurrection message (Mk. 16:1-8). The fact is, the might and righteousness of women gave them the strength to go to the tomb with intent to fulfill the Hebrew burial laws of God come what may, soldiers or no soldiers.
Whereas, the men were all cowardly hidden away. However, the women's fearless strength caused them to be the FIRST to PREACH of the resurrection. How then can preacher's erroneously preach that 'women must be silent, can't speak or preach?' The fact is, Paul must, have meant something else as he himself, often commended women preachers.
There was priscilla who was called an apostle right along with her husband (Acts 18:2, 18.26; Rom. 16:3). Phoebe was called a 'servant' but the Greek word for 'servant' was 'minister or preacher' (Rom. 1:16). Oh, and what happened to the many women on Pentacost who were baptized in the Holy Spirit? (Acts 2:17). Do you think they just kept silent after that day? No! It would have been a sin if they had. Instead, they too, went forth 'preaching and teaching.' We know that there were active spiritual groups run by women as Paul came upon the woman Lydia (Acts 16:14). Of a surety, she and the women with her were baptized in the Holy Spirit (Acts. 16:14-15).
In all these matters, please know of a certainty, that the 'letter' of the word taught erroneously has been a violation of God's will with regard to women. Women, like men, were ordained by Jesus/Yahshua Himself, to "go into all the world and PREACH' the gospel' (Mk. 16:15-18).
Bottom line, as all are baptized in the Holy Spirit, then 'all,' meaning both men and 'women,' should preach the word of God to a lost and dying world. We should not forsake the assemblying of ourselves together. We must come together as righteous men and WOMEN to preach, teach, prophesy within the church (Heb. 10:25).. It is the will of God. As such,, who can withstand it and prevail?!
Replies are closed for this discussion.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Dawn Davidson on
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Brother West,
You seem to expect to win this both ways. The common traditional views clearly presents an Adam who was not in violation before God except for eating the fruit itself, and even according to this thought, that was not even his fault. Yet the only way the man could have achieved not being in violation before God (save the fruit) was to have walked fully in proper alignment with God pre-fall and even after the fall itself.
Yet, when you find yourself unable to prove the "perfection" of Adam and when faced with even Adam's own very words correctly speaking of the female, (Eve/mother of all living) now suddenly we are not bound to consider anything this man said or did in relation to what was the actual will of God. You don't like 3:20 because it blows what you say completely out of the water. But God said that he would cause our enemies to bless us (and yes Adam was a definite enemy to Eve in the garden). Further, what Adam spoke in 3:20 was the only truth the man spoke the entire time! He lied his entire way through the garden.
Yet Adam was supposed to speak the will of God only in the garden. Post-fall God return into the garden not only to judge the fall but to rectify that which was now wrong between the man and the female. Adam rebelliously and improperly named the female by calling her "Woman" and a God who was clearly in the process of punishing a still un-confessed Adam compelled the man to rightly call her "Eve" instead. Adam chose to call himself "Man" yet God post-fall again called him "Adam."
And even if we pursue your line of reasoning, that is in Genesis 3:20 Adam was not in fact now speaking in agreement with the will of God, by saying that the name of the female was actually "Eve" and not "Woman" and that her garden identity was that as "mother of all living", you are still left with an Adam who lied. Either way your argument for the man falls flat upon its face. And what does it say that Adam would even continue to lie in the very face of God post-fall? Are you for real? You write about this as if you have no understanding at all about how to rightly read and discern scripture. You don't otherwise seem this way, as I have read several of your other writings in different areas, yet now you remind me of an Adam who could correctly name the animals according to the will of God but when it came to recognizing and then rightly speaking the correct name and righteous identity of the female, all for Adam quickly fell apart. Seems to me, you have Adam issues.
You need to fear God and stop cherry-picking this word to suit your taste. Further, Adam only confessed by way of accusation and given all that he really did in that garden it was not a full confession of truth. If you doubt that then explain why God punished the man? It's not me you are calling a liar it is God. Eve confessed in 3:13 and God clearly honored her even as we know from 3:20.
Last point, title/rewards given or even available to be earned/given in the garden (as Adam did not earn his) were specific to the garden and in no way speaks to the usurping of God's Authority. That is ridiculous, God gave it to Adam to say, that is in calling the female "mother of all living" in 3:20. He compelled the man, Adam did not say it because he wanted to, he was still a fallen, freshly punished and still un-confessed man and therefore yet still rebellious. Adam was now doing only what he had to do in the very face of God. God was now compelling him to do what he did not already rightly do in the garden.
Other areas of you argument here are completely irrelevant and I simply won't address them. -
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Permalink Reply by Adrian Lamar West Sr. on
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Adam didn't lie She (woman) gave him too eat.........
And they saw that the fruit was good for food.......... -
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Brother West,
Now you are beginning to say two different things. Why do you then believe God corrected Adam? Genesis 2:23 was a double lie by Adam. Adam lied about his name, the name of the female, that the fruit could not be both touched and eaten (even past the point of what he expected to be the female's death), and even in presenting himself before God as blameless after all of that. But God knew. And a male pulpit still feels the sting of Adam's punishment. An unconfessed Adam got exactly what he deserved to get from God. -
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Where do you get off with he lied about his name/ God did not say Adam what is your name????
Adam when asked if he had eaten from the tree of the knowlege of good and evil, stated
"The Woman whom thou gavestto be with me, she gave me of the tree and i did eat"
now where in does he lie?????????
And the Lord God said unto the woman "What is this that thou hast done??????
Where did I lie to you sister??
Anbd a confessed Eve got what she deserved/ just as many of an unrepentant woman shall. -
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Brother West,
You wrote:
"Anbd a confessed Eve got what she deserved/ just as many of an unrepentant woman shall."
But Eve was confessed which is why she was not punished, only Adam was. It is man only that continues in the idea that the female is to be punished. And as I said, when you speak of what Eve received from God, she received confirmation of her own full identity, rightly rooted as a fallen garden individual able to get up again by way of her confession.
You wrote:
Where do you get off with he lied about his name/ God did not say Adam what is your name????
Yet if you ask me my name and I tell you it is Joe, you turn the corner only to find out from my mother that it is Jim, what would you now think of me? That I am of right mind? That I did not just lie? That is exactly what Adam did, but you blind eyes can't see because all you want to do is prove him to be right. Genesis 2:23 was not just one lie, but two.
You wrote:
Adam when asked if he had eaten from the tree of the knowlege of good and evil, stated
"The Woman whom thou gavestto be with me, she gave me of the tree and i did eat"
now where in does he lie?????????
Adam lied in not confessing the full truth to God. Why then did a Just God punish the man? And please don't come at me with the idea that Adam as the man was responsible for the actions of Eve in the garden. If that were really the case, and it was all upon the man, then no female would be even subjected to the idea from God of going to Hell. We in fact would ultimately be responsible for nothing, and yet we know this is not the case with God.
And while we are quoting this word let us not forget exactly what God said after the female spoke in Genesis 3:13:
She said (in Genesis 3:13): "The serpent beguild me and I did eat."
And then God said directly in response to the serpent (Genesis 3:14: "Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life . . ."
Did you get the ""Because thou hast done this" part? Now what does that mean? Ummm . . . that God believed the female? Or would you instead dare to call Him a fool? Was He now even deceived? Answer this please.
Perhaps however we should dismiss this as well given that we are already showing no regard for truth concerning Adam.
You wrote:
Where did I lie to you sister??
You made this admission: "Though GOD did correct ADAM"
Your words this time not mine. Why do you say he was corrected by God? -
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How do you explain greatly multiplied sorrow as confirmation as to whom one is???
Genesis 2:22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from Man, made He a Woman, and brought her unto the Man,
2:23 And Adam said, this is now bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of man..
Who lied in the 2 verses/ where is the lie/ there is none to be told here.
Do not forget that God asked her plainly What is this that thou(you) have done.
I say that God believed them all/ that is why all received punishment.
I say he was corrected by God because he was......
Why do you say Eve was not???????????? -
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You wrote:
How do you explain greatly multiplied sorrow as confirmation as to whom one is???
I never said that “greatly multiplied sorrow” confirmed who Eve was, God confirmed Eve himself in both name and title in a fallen garden given to her as reward. Adam did not get what Eve did, but still you would rather not deal with the real differences between them, as if it means nothing.
I will restate much of what I stated before yet with a bit more detail:
Genesis 3:16 represents two levels of "sorrow" in Eve. The first “sorrow” experienced by Eve was simply rooted in the very idea that she had to continue in marriage and even her life with this man Adam. Adam was an unconfessed man, showing no regard for God and a man who even demonstrated an appetite for her demise. When God says, “I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and conception” He was merely speaking to Eve about the reality of the situation she was now in as His Plan for the two to remain as man and wife had not changed. God was both acknowledging (her sorrow) and even encouraging Eve in stating that he was going to increase her conception. Children represent our harvest from the Lord, they are a good thing. And for a female called to be “mother of all living” it spoke directly to her purpose as well.
Now regarding her increased conception. The first thing we must note is that there had as of yet been no conception and God was not himself going to plant seed into the female. That did not happen until Mary (and you don’t want me to get into why the seed of an actual “man” wasn’t involved in that given with what really happened in this garden). So when He says he is going to “greatly multiply” her conception he is now directly speaking about a future changed state of the man Adam. A changed state which God himself, by way of the full punishment now designed by God specifically for Adam, would wrought in the man. That is, the only way her conception was going to be multiplied was when Adam made a change not to hate the things of God (and as given by God) but to instead show respect and walk according to a right mind before God. For every reason already listed in my postings, Adam before had no regard for Eve in true and full identity, as a wife or even for her very life. He proved this: hence her repressed by Adam identity (Genesis 2:23), no garden children, and his silent presence during her temptation and fall in Genesis 3:1-6.
The second level of “sorrow” points to an Eve now compelled to birth children spiritually bound for eternal damnation, this even despite her call as "mother of all living." It equated to utter tragedy. When you rightly exalt God first and not man and make a study of the Hebrew (but then again as you stated before true meanings of words mean nothing to you) the entire of the garden story changes right before your very eyes. So sorry to disappoint you, but none of this gives the male reason to even suggest that God was punishing the female. God was speaking truth regarding his continued will for her with the still disobedient Adam and thus also showing compassion toward an Eve who he knew was devastated and who he just before rewarded. The only thing Eve had to walk in as a result of the fall were consequences related directly to the fall; a fall which represented (and even directly caused by) the actual state of her husband Adam’s mind.
Further, God cannot compel or command one to "desire" anything. It was a prophetic statement only speaking to a changed Adam in the future. Eve was fully aware of all that Adam perpetrated against her in the garden, yet the will of God for Adam to be her husband had not changed. She was however devastated and the very last thing she desired was to be with a rebellious, and even murderous unconfessed Adam. Eve would only begin to "desire" Adam after Adam began to rightly "cleave" to Eve (Genesis 2:24). Cleaving for Adam was achievable by command (check the Hebrew) but achieving "desire" by command is not.
You must first understand the nature of her two sorrows in 3:16. You now believe she was sorrowful because God punished a confessed female who he at the same time rewarded in name as an “Eve” and in title as “mother of all living.” Really not sure how you come to that conclusion (that God works in lies and contradictions) but it seems to work for both you and the male dominated church, at least for now as He has yet to return.
You wrote:
Do not forget that God asked her plainly What is this that thou(you) have done.
In answer I will again repeat as given in my answer above, let's discuss it this time. And while we are quoting this word let us not forget exactly what God said after the female spoke in Genesis 3:13:
She said (in Genesis 3:13): "The serpent beguild me and I did eat."
And then God said directly in response to the words of Eve in Genesis 3:13 to the serpent in Genesis 3:14: "Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life . . ."
Did you get the "Because thou hast done this" part? Now what does that mean? Ummm . . . that God believed the female? Or would you instead dare to call Him a fool? Was He now even deceived? Answer this please.
Perhaps however we should dismiss this too as well given according to you, we should show no regard for truth concerning Adam.
You wrote:
Genesis 2:22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from Man, made He a Woman, and brought her unto the Man,
2:23 And Adam said, this is now bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of man..
Who lied in the 2 verses/ where is the lie/ there is none to be told here.
I never said this is where Adam lied. I have very clearly stated again and again that the first lie of Adam occurred in actually “naming” and calling the female “Woman” in Genesis 2:23 and not “Eve” and in rejecting his own name of “Adam” as given by God and electing to go by “Man” (as in a mighty champion according to the Hebrew, a mighty champion which he certainly was not) instead. Real simple. And if someone sought to pull this in your own life today you would call them on it, it is completely disingenuous of you to say you would not. You know you would, otherwise, if nothing matters, then why bother to call me out on anything I am saying? If Adam could lie and just be left free to get away with it, then why seek to hold me to a higher standard? But at least what I am saying is based in truth, Adam was just plain crazy (spiritually speaking of course).
Now what Adam was in the verses you quoted here is clearly mistaken in his discernment regarding the creation of the female. This is what the word says from God regarding how the female was created:
Genesis 2:21 – “And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof:
Genesis 2:22 – “And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto man.”
And yet what does an already darkening Adam say in Genesis 2:23?
“And Adam said, This is now bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of man.”
Question: Exactly where is it indicated by God that the actual “flesh” of Adam was used in the creation of the female? Quickly now, that’s right you can’t find it because it is not there. That is because the only thing God did with the already darkening “flesh” of Adam was to cut it, cause it to bleed, and then to close it. He rejected Adam’s flesh, Adam only assumed God used it due to the fact that the man was bleeding, but God never states “flesh.” God speaks to it, but not in using it as an element in the creation of the female, it is yet only cut, caused to bleed and closed. God took the bone only instead.
We also can’t ignore Genesis 2:24 in this:
“Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” This is a verse speaking about God’s will in marriage between a husband and a wife. This verse has been included by the writer (likely Moses) because it represents to us all that a garden Adam was not and therefore all that we will not see take place in the garden story. It speaks to parents which Adam had not, it speaks to “cleav(ing) to a wife which Adam did not, and it speaks to a state of unity between flesh which in relation to (and in reality of) the flesh of an unconfessed Adam in comparison to the flesh of a willingly confessed Eve, simply was not one and the same. The two were in direct opposition. Please remember, God calls things in the beginning as they will be in the end (even in the rejection of Adam's flesh), the garden story is no exception. This is why God (even in the beginning) called the man “Adam” a name meaning to be made embarrassed and humiliated and this is why he desired the name of “Eve” for the female (even in the beginning) meaning to be a “life-giver” a word based upon a root word meaning to “declare” or to “show life.” This is why it was/is so important that Adam sought to change their names. It was treason and robbery even before and from an Almighty God. -
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Again you cannot and are not proving this lesbianic doctrine of the so called Adam lied and deceived Eve/ Did not both of them speak what was written in relation to what happened/ notice only the serpent was not questioned..
If Eve was so devout and righteous to her Husband then why the need to talk to the Serpent.....
You say that only Eve received confirmation as to who she was/is
Yet to have sorrow greatly multiplied is a blessing to you.
You say Adam lied about his name/ well then you are probably one of those people who don't yet realize what the civil rights movement ws about/ take a look at pictures and you will see that no-matter what the names where the signs said "I AM A MAN"
Something you will never be so stop trying, the problem lies when women want to be the Head/ sit back and wait on the promise.......
Whayou say Adam lied by not confessing the full truth/
Then how come Eve wasable to convey the message:
Genesis 3:2-3 And the Woman said unto the Serpent we may eat of the fruit of the trees of the Garden.
But of the Fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the Garden, God hath said Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye Touch it, lest ye Die..
So while you are quoting the Word/ get it right/ Eve knew what not to do, so by her actions she was in direct dis-obedience to God..........
Yes truly in-fact; God did respond to the Serpent first/ yet he still did not question the Serpent...........
He asked Eve also " What is this Thou that Thou hast Done" Keep it all in there..
He knew what Adam had done/ the Why was the Question???????
and to answer that it was probably to keep her satisfied/quiet........
you continue to say that I have no regard as to Adams sin/ But nowhere in my posts have I called Adam Righteous nor sinlesss........
And Yes God did correct Adam as he Did Eve and the Serpent.............
None went un-punished........... -
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Technically, or shall I say accurately, only Eve then saw that the tree was good for food because only she alone had to be deceived into desiring it. A silent but present Adam during the temptation of Eve proves that he already did. Genesis 3:6 begins with: "And when the woman saw that the tree was goo for food . . .' This also tells us, that the female did not before think that this tree was good for food. She was deceived by a lying Adam as he was himself being led by the serpent.
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And when the Woman saw that the tree was Good for food, and that it waspleasant to the eyes, and a tree too be desiredto make one wise, She took of the fruitthereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her, and he did eat........
Let's not read what isn't there. The Word does not say anywhere that she was deceived by Adam/ well if that what you state is true/ she lied to God/ because she says that the serpent beguiled her.
Which is it??
ADAM you say was lying to her because he was led by the serpent..
Scripture does not back up what you are so willing to spiritualize..
The Word says She gave to her husband with her..
Genesis 3:17 begins by saying: And unto ADAM he said, because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake: in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.....
So we do see here that it was Adam who by listening to the voice of his wife was the first sin/ eating of the tree( not heading the command) second was not cursed yet the ground was for his sake..
Both of their sorrows were multiplied/ yet hers were greatly........
Quote the Word not your feelings..........Thanx -
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In short, Eve was rewarded by God even post-fall in the garden, therefore we know the lie regarding whether the fruit could be neither touched or eaten surely did not come from her. Additionally, God gave this word directly to Adam only to rightly deliver to a soon to be herself manifested Eve. Further, Adam was present at the time Eve spoke these words to the serpent yet said nothing. Further, had Adam obediently functioned in the garden then Eve would never have believed this fruit could be neither touched or eaten as Adam was also charged by God to both dress and keep the garden. God established seasons in the first chapter of Genesis. How could Adam then keep and properly dress a garden with fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which could not also be touched? How do you pick up ripened and then falling fruit, if you cannot touch it? In this regard Adam was also at fault before God. This is also why Eve did not even regard the fruit as good for food, she had to be deceived into thinking this. I believe, the fruit from this tree was allowed to collect upon the ground and rot as it was a tree which Adam, due to his own lie to Eve, could not physically keep according to God's command. He simply preferred to maintain his lie instead of acting in obedience because Adam all along wanted the fruit from the forbidden tree all to himself.
Adam chose to adulterate God's word and he did it was purpose in mind to selfishly guard the tree for himself alone. He had already denied the female her name and her identity, even the truth of knowing who he really was, what more is a lie about the fruit to him? When the female entered into convesation with the serpent regarding the truth of the tree, is when Adam realized that this could all work out to his advantage which is why he elected to remain silent. Either way for him it would be a win/win. If the female ate of the fruit and died, he would be rid of one which he did not care for anyway, and if she lived he would at least know that God was indeed a liar and that he too could safely eat of the fruit. This is why God punished the man for "hearkening" unto the voice of his wife. To "hearken" is to respond and what God knew is that Adam was responding to the still "living" voice of his wife as he expected that she might die before his eyes after eating the fruit. Yet she physically did not and he too at that time ate of the fruit as well. You are incorrect my brother, make a study of the full Hebrew and purpose yourself to overcome your flesh just as a garden Adam should have and allow truth alone to lead you. You know Adam's so-called "truth" doesn't lead to God, this is tradition you are defending. Yet how does God feel when we choose to exalt the traditions of our fathers above and over his word? It seems I read about that somewhere . . . have you? -
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Permalink Reply by Evangelist Lisa Kyles on
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Praise the Lord,
Since we are having a bible class Dissussion (LOL)
I have question In Genesis 3:13-15
13. And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14. And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15. And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
1.Why didn't God put War(enmity) between Man and the Serpent??
2. And what is the purpose of this war in the first place?
3.And what will be the final outcome -
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