Women Bishop

[Yolanda Burton]

Can someone please show me in the Bible where this is permitted and explain the text?
Truly, I have been inspired by all of the comments and insight that have come from many of you!! I wanted to open a discussion that would stir the hearts and minds of many and I did. I can see that it is man vs woman and should not be. My question still remains,,,about Women Bishops!!!! The Bible does not co-sign this. I really believe we all are hung on titles. Whatever you do,,,do it all in the name of Jesus. I wanted to make some points and say some things, so that it would stir your knowledge up and cause you to proclaim what you believe. I can say,,,I have walked into many churches,,,and without sayiing a word or opening my mouth,,,,how can these men detect, discern, or sense that God has a call on my life. AND,,,WHAT, call is that? Glory be to God,,,you see many of us should make sure that our scripture references that we are using to back up your point,,,is not contextual customed to fit in your box of beliefs. My statement to this was about,,,women Bishops,,,and I for one don't agree with the TITLE,,,but I believe that a woman can teach the Gospel,,,and if the HOOP is naturally in her when she delievers,,,then hoop. Whether you want to call it style,,,whatever,,,,we all have our style. So,,if I come to some of your churches,,,I can get turned off by even the way some you hoop or TEACH. Everyone is voicing their beliefs. This is a very sensitive topic,,,and women we must make sure we are wise virtuous women,,,one thing is for sure,,,we are MASTERs at multitasking. If God,,,called you to Sunday School, Evangelist,Prophet, then you must remain a help at home. Men,,,i believe if your wife works, has to take care of kids,,,and does servant service to her local Ministry,,,it just WONT kill you to assist her at home. This is one statement that needs constant understanding and research. Our prayer should be that the LORD will enlighten and reveal to us his truth,,,NOT YOUR OPINION or CONVINCING. You see,,he that wins a soul is wise. We must make sure we ALL speak wisely. God Bless You All And thanks for the replies and the most of all THE WORD!!

[Debbi Smith]

Ok. I think I'm ok with my understanding of it for now. I am going to do a little research just to understand better. I don't want to over infringe on the original conversation. Thanks for the initial information.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

I believe he only meant the Jews you worked for, not the Prophets of the Scriptures.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

James, you said:

I think I should put my 2 cents in here. Its my respectable opinion that Paul himself had an opinion about why women should not teach over a man. I believe it dealt with the culture around him, rather than what Yahweh said.

I would disagree with that, because 1) he would then be a hypocrite. His words to Peter rebuking him for that same thing would be null and void; 2) I've been pointing to the Deaconate office. He stated the same thing for the Bishopric, and yet we see Phebe as a Deacon in his very own Epistle to the Romans. Did he pull back his words? I think not; 3) he said the word "usurp" which is almost always overlooked when speaking about that verse in Timothy. No one seems to care about it, but it has a very significant meaning and changes the context of the entire message. Care to define that for us?

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

There is care upon it, but what most Christians do not seem to care to see is the historical background of the book of Timothy. Do you know the cultural/historical background of Timothy, and why Paul said what he said, Trevor?????

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Sure I have!

[N'ZI Amani Germain]

Pierce,

Did brother Paul deal with the culture around him, rather than what Yahweh said?

I think that your analysis above is a particular interpretation of the Word of God. The Gospel is not our own word; it’s the Word of God. Consequently, it should not be influenced by our belief, our feeling and our own thoughts.

Let’s see what Paul said:

“For God is not a God of disorder but of peace. As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command.”

1 Corinthians 14:33-37

Was Paul referring to “the Corinthian culture and its laws”?

Paul truly said:

1- “As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches”

What Paul said was concerning not only the Church of Corinth but also all churches of the saints in the whole world.

2- “They must be in submission as the Law says.”

The law here is the Law of God. This Law can be found in Genesis 3:16, Ephesians 5:22-24, 1 Peter 3: 1.

This is the reason why the same Paul, speaking about the attitude of the women in the church (1 Timothy 2:11-14) referred to Genesis 3:16.

Paul was not referring to the particular Law of Corinthians. No!

The teachings of Paul can never be based on the rules taught by men. Never! I say never!
“They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.”(Mark 7:7)

3- Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached?”

Indeed, The Word of God didn’t originate with Corinthians. Moreover, they are not the only people it has reached. The Word of God is universal and identical for all the congregations of the Saints. Consequently, Paul did not speak about the particular culture of the Corinthians, insofar as there is only one faith (Ephesians 4: 5)

4- “The Lord's command”

What Paul did say was not his own opinion; it was the Lord’s command. Amen!

Women of God, Do you really Love the Lord? If you truly love Him, then you should obey His command, for the Lord Jesus said:

"If you love me, you will obey what I command.”
John 14:15

Do not harden your heart anymore but leave the pulpit to men of God. Recognize your place! Please recognize that your place is behind! Amen!

The scripture which clearly prohibited the Corinthians and Ephesians women from teaching is the Lord’s command. That is valid for the women of all the congregations of the saints (of any time).

That scripture was valid for Deborah, Anna, Priscilla, Phoebe, Mary, Tryphena, Tryphisa, Euodia, Syntyche and son on. And it’s valid for the women of today.

Blessings,

Bro. Germain

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Bro. Germain, one thing I notice with you is that you are consistent, which can be a gift and a curse. Its your curse right now though, because you are reaching for straws. Lets deal with truth and not opinion please.

You Said:
DEBORAH WAS A JUDGE, BUT NOT IN A SENSE EQUIVALENT TO THAT OF OTHNIEL and EHUD. Brother, you are leading women astray. Please, do not try to please women but please God. Indeed, brother Paul said: “For do I now seek to satisfy men or God? or do I seek to please men? If I were yet pleasing men, I were not Christ's bondman.” Galatians 1:10 Please, quit(leave) feminism and preach only the Word of God.


Please women? My agenda has nothing to do with pleasing women, sir. There are PLENTY of other ways to please women besides this. Quite frankly, there are women that have heard the call of GOD on their life, and do not move only because of people like you, causing them to be mislead and disobedient to GOD. The ONLY way I can be accused of women pleasing is by keeping them from being miserable from disobeying GOD.


You Said:
"Brother, the Bible states clearly that Sisera was the captain of the army of Jabin king of Canaan, who reigned in Hazor (Judges 4:2). So when you say that “Barak was the leader of the ARMY, not the nation”, do you want to insinuate that Barak was the leader of the ARMY of Deborah? The ARMY of Deborah, since she would be leader of the whole nation? Is this your teaching?"

Deborah was not queen, but Judge. GOD our FATHER is King of all Israel. No matter who GOD set up, it was always called "the army of GOD". You tried a POOR move there.


You Said:
Brother, why did God raise up Judges in Israel? He raised up Judges in Israel in order to save Israel out of the hands of its enemies. “ Then the LORD raised up judges, who saved them out of the hands of these raiders” (Judges 2:16). No one has said that Deborah had not play a role. Certainly, she was a Judge, but she was not a Judge in a sense equivalent to that of the other Judges because she was a WOMAN.

Thats pure garbage! One minute the LORD raises up Judges to save Israel, the next minute Deborah isn't a Judge like the others just cause she's a female??? I guess GOD Almighty ain't so almighty if you have a vagina and not a penis, huh? So much for "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me". Seems to me you says there is a verse for the woman that say I can do ALMOST all things through Christ....


You Said:
"The Bible says that God raised up for Israelites a deliverer, Othniel son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother, who saved them. The Spirit of the LORD came upon him, so that he became Israel's judge and went to war.
“But when they cried out to the LORD, he raised up for them a deliverer, Othniel son of Kenaz, Caleb's younger brother, who saved them. The Spirit of the LORD came upon him, so that he became Israel's judge and went to war. The LORD gave Cushan-Rishathaim king of Aram into the hands of Othniel, who overpowered him. 11 So the land had peace for forty years, until Othniel son of Kenaz died” (Judges 3:9-11). Brother, the Bible says that OTHNIEL, son of Kenaz, the JUDGE WENT TO WAR. His appeal was directly linked to the cries of the Israelites. The Spirit of the LORD came upon him, so that he became Israel's judge and went to war (himself). Let us see an other example: The Bible states that God raised up for Israelites a deliverer Ehud, a left-handed man, the son of Gera the Benjamite. “ 15 Again the Israelites cried out to the LORD, and he gave them a deliverer—Ehud, a left-handed man, the son of Gera the Benjamite. The Israelites sent him with tribute to Eglon king of Moab. 16 Now Ehud had made a double-edged sword about a foot and a half [a] long, which he strapped to his right thigh under his clothing. 17 He presented the tribute to Eglon king of Moab, who was a very fat man. 18 After Ehud had presented the tribute, he sent on their way the men who had carried it. 19 At the idols [b] near Gilgal he himself turned back and said, "I have a secret message for you, O king." The king said, "Quiet!" And all his attendants left him. 20 Ehud then approached him while he was sitting alone in the upper room of his summer palace [c] and said, "I have a message from God for you." As the king rose from his seat, 21 Ehud reached with his left hand, drew the sword from his right thigh and plunged it into the king's belly. 22 Even the handle sank in after the blade, which came out his back. Ehud did not pull the sword out, and the fat closed in over it. 23 Then Ehud went out to the porch [d] ; he shut the doors of the upper room behind him and locked them” (Judges 3:15-23). Brother, the Bible says that "EHUD, a left-handed man, the Judge of Israel had made a double-edged sword about a foot and a half [a] long, which he strapped to his right thigh under his clothing. 17 He presented the tribute to Eglon king of Moab, who was a very fat man. 18 After Ehud had presented the tribute, he sent on their way the men who had carried it. 19 At the idols [b] near Gilgal he himself turned back and said, "I have a secret message for you, O king." The king said, "Quiet!" And all his attendants left him. 20 Ehud then approached him while he was sitting alone in the upper room of his summer palace [c] and said, "I have a message from God for you." As the king rose from his seat, 21 Ehud reached with his left hand, drew the sword from his right thigh and plunged it into the king's belly". Here again, we notice that the appeal of the Judge EHUD was directly linked to the cries of the Israelites, so at the idols near Gilgal he himself turned back and said to the King, "I have a secret message for you. Yes, EHUD Himself drew the sword from his right thigh and plunged it into the belly Eglon king of Moab. Brother, do you know the leader of the ARMY of OTHNIEL and EHUD? Were they leaders of the nation who didn’t possess army captains? New let us see the appeal of Deborah. “And the children of Israel cried to Jehovah; for he had nine hundred chariots of iron, and he mightily oppressed the children of Israel twenty years. And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, judged Israel at that time. And she dwelt under the palm-tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim; and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment (Judges 4:3-5). Brother, the appeal of Deborah was not directly linked to the cries of the Israelites, because she was already a Judge before their cries. She was also a prophetess. “…Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, judged Israel at that time…”. Brother, please answer my question: Why doesn’t the Bible say that the Israelites cried out to the LORD, and he gave them a deliverer, Deborah the prophetess? Why?"

Though all the scriptures you used were true, you played a hypocritical move here. GOD raised up Judges to be deliverers of Israel, yet all of a sudden, Deborah doesn't count anymore as a Judge by you because she didn't go to war. You say with your words she's a Judge, but you truly claim that she's inferior. The 5th chapters talks of the princes of Israel accompanying Deborah (Judges 5:15), not the other way around. Also, in the Bible, they normally stated the elder/leader of two people first, followed by the second in command. Since this is the case, why is Deborah named before Barak? Regardless if she led the army or not, she Judged ("shaphat"-to judge, to govern; to litigate ) Israel.



"This is what the Bible says: “And she sent and called Barak the son of Abinoam out of Kedesh-Naphtali, and said to him, Hath not Jehovah the God of Israel commanded? Go and draw towards mount Tabor, and take with thee ten thousand men of the children of Naphtali and of the children of Zebulun.” (Judges 4:6) Why did Deborah send and call Barak ( A MAN)? Why didn’t Deborah decide to go to war herself as OTHNIEL and EHUD did? Why? Because she was a WOMAN."

What does her not going to war have anything to do with political leadership? Solomon never lifted his sword in war, does that mean he was an unfit king? Esther helped establish Purim and wrote out laws enabling the Israelites to fight back for their rights. Does this make her more qualified than Solomon, who never fought? GOD sets in order who HE will, for "all are one in Christ".

Women of God, please recognize that you are WOMEN. Please recognize your limits as Deborah did. Please, do not be ashamed of your statute. To be a WOMAN is not a shame. The Bible says that you are WEAKER vessels. Ye husbands likewise, dwell with [them] according to knowledge, as with a weaker, [even] the female, vessel, giving [them] honour, as also fellow-heirs of [the] grace of life, that your prayers be not hindered”.(1 Peter 3:7)

Weaker vessel not handicap or incapable vessel. Why are they called the weaker vessel also?

Certainly, Deborah was a Judge, but she was not a Judge in a sense equivalent to that of OTHNIEL and EHUD because she was a WOMAN. Deborah has played a role as a Prophetess, not as a warrior, a true leader or a true General who goes to war himself. Indeed, Deborah said: “My heart is toward the governors of Israel, who offered themselves willingly among the people. Praise the LORD!"(JUDGES 5:9)

So a REAL leader has to show violence within their reign? A REAL leader of a nation has to be a general? You sound like a fool, for JESUS said he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

Women of God, you must be grateful like Deborah and praise the LORD for having commended Pastors, Evangelists, Doctors, Apostles, Prophets, among you. “It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers.” (Ephesians 4:11) Please, praise the Lord for that! Please, be grateful for that!

Funny, I see positions that women of GOD have held. Clearly the office of Prophet was held by women, does that mean their prophetic words were less value than their male counterparts?


As Deborah, please leave the pulpit or the authority to men ordained by God who offered themselves willingly among the people of God. Truly speaking, Deborah was not the leader of Israel but she was traditionally judging Israel at that time. She was simply a Judge. She was neither the pastor nor the leader of Israel. Barak was the leader. Barak, a man, the leader was to fight Sisera. Deborah as a prophetess simply did inform Barak about what God wanted him to do. The prophetess Deborah was not an overseer of a church. The Lord simply gave her a revelation, to show His servant Barak (A MAN) what would soon take place: “Then Deborah said to Barak, "Go! This is the day the LORD has given Sisera into your hands” (Judges 4:14). See : “…into your hands…”! Yes, into the hands of Barak, A MAN. Amen!

The pulpit is the LEAST of the true responsibilities of a minister, and many women have ministered from it with grace and anointing from GOD. By the way, since you say she was "just a Judge", describe the office of the Judge at that time for us.

A woman can prophesy (1 Corinthians 11: 4-5). A woman can become a judge. Today, we see everywhere women who are judges and that does not scandalize anybody. It’s simply a profession that they do exert. But in the Assembly of God, women can not hold authority over men.

The Judge holds an authoritative position, for his/her decision according to the law is final. Only one of higher rank can over rule their words, all the way up to the leader of the nation/kingdom. You better find out the role of a Judge in today's time and the past before you speak, oh scholarly one!

Barak was to go to war alone but he decided to go with Deborah, a woman who was not entitled to go to war. The attitude of Barak was to some extent a release of liability, a disengagement. Of course, today, men who authorize women to teach in their assemblies resemble Barak: “Barak said to her, "If you go with me, I will go; but if you don't go with me, I won't go."(Judges 4:8) Let us see what Deborah who knew her true position did say to barak: "Very well," Deborah said, "I will go with you. But because of the way you are going about this, the honor will not be yours, for the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman." So Deborah went with Barak to Kedesh, where he summoned Zebulun and Naphtali. Ten thousand men followed him, and Deborah also went with him.” (Judges 4:9-10) Didn’t Deborah refer to gender bias here? (“For the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman”) Amen! "...But because of the way you are going about this, the honor will not be yours, for the LORD will hand Sisera over to a woman..."

We been down this road already.....

Authority belongs to Barak, the man. Deborah knew. Let us listen to an excerpt of her canticle: “Village life in Israel ceased, ceased until I, Deborah, arose, arose a mother in Israel.” (Judges 5:7) Deborah arose like a mother in Israel. Yes A MOTHER! Women, you are MOTHERS. THIS IS YOUR TRUE POSITION IN THE BODY OF CHRIST. Amen! Deborah was not an overseer of a church but a MOTHER. Women, you must labour, you must toil, you must strive, you must pray, you can prophesy, you must intercede; you must endeavour to support the work of God as MOTHERS. You should not become pastors; your true position has been shown by Deborah. You are mothers.

Is a mother leader in the household behind the father of the house? Isn't it true that the only one to override a decision in the house of a mother is her husband? Deborah rose up as the mother of Israel. The ONLY one to claim to be the father of Israel is none other than YHWH the FATHER Himself. Therefore, at that time, the only one to override her voice was GOD's Word.

Deborah was the fellow worker of Barak, but she was not the leader of Israel, Barak was. It’s not because Deborah prophesied and accompanied Barak to Kedesh that she was the leader of Israel at that time. Deborah played her role as a MOTHER not as a man or an Overseer. The Bible declares: “Then Deborah said to Barak, "Go! This is the day the LORD has given Sisera into your hands” (Judges 4:14). Amen!

Mothers ARE Overseers!

For example, the Bible declares that “After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.” (Luke 8:1-3) Tell me, were the women who followed Jesus and supported His work by their own means Overseers or Apostles in a sense equivalent to that of the twelve? Yes, woman’s place is behind! All those women never hold authority over men, they new their role, their place in the church. All that belongs to God’s salvation plan was revealed to the prophets and apostles (Ephesians 3:5; Revelation 10:7).

I could have sworn that it was a female to deliver the first Gospel message to the Apostles themselves, but maybe I'm wrong.....Also, there were women in leadership mentioned not only in scripture, but in history of the Church as well.


The Ministries and the gifts must be placed correctly in their divine order and left in their place. No woman was leader in the early church. The Holy Scriptures never state that Priscilla, Chloe or Phoebe were leaders or Overseers in the Church.

Have you checked Church history for your facts? I can tell you that you are wrong easily!

[N'ZI Amani Germain]

Brother Trevor,

I've seen your poor attempt to refute my teaching above.

Do you want to convince me that DEBORAH WAS A JUDGE IN A SENSE EQUIVALENT TO THAT OF OTHNIEL and EHUD ?

Please, do as you think fit, but let us read the biblical passage below:

“28 Then the LORD opened the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?"
29 Balaam answered the donkey, "You have made a fool of me! If I had a sword in my hand, I would kill you right now."
30 The donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you?"
"No," he said.
31 Then the LORD opened Balaam's eyes, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with his sword drawn. So he bowed low and fell facedown.
32 The angel of the LORD asked him, "Why have you beaten your donkey these three times? I have come here to oppose you because your path is a reckless one before me. [a] 33 The donkey saw me and turned away from me these three times. If she had not turned away, I would certainly have killed you by now, but I would have spared her."
34 Balaam said to the angel of the LORD, "I have sinned. I did not realize you were standing in the road to oppose me. Now if you are displeased, I will go back."
35 The angel of the LORD said to Balaam, "Go with the men, but speak only what I tell you." So Balaam went with the princes of Balak ».

Numbers 22: 28-35

Now, listen to me carefully!

If someone is not a TRUE SERVANT OF GOD, even though our Lord speaks to him through the donkey's mouth and open his eyes, this one will go straight with the princes of Balak.

Yes this one will continue in his errors.

So, I pray for you, my brother.

That is all I can say.

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches"

Revelation 3:22

Blessings,

Bro. Germain

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Great, now your women are on the level of Balaam's donkey??!?! That wa the problem of old: women were property and not in authority as Eve originally was.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Min. Kareem A. Christian:

The TRUE problem is this: you and many others have not recognized what the curse of the woman was and how it was lifted. What did GOD tell her as her punishment, and what came about from it? This is but another case of the "3:16's" of the Bible:

A handicap match between Genesis 3:16 vs. John 3:16 & Colossians 3:16, with 2nd Timothy 3:16, as the referees.

Of course you wouldn't see women in leadership roles in the Bible as often as they should, for their curse was to be under men. I could have sworn that the curse was lifted. Was everything lifted except that portion? You mean Adam was redeem back unto leadership and dominance but eve had to stay in her place under Adam, a place she never had in the beginning?

Each morning, when Orthodox and Conservative Jews say their daily blessings, the men among them recite the following prayer: Baruch Atah Adonai, Eloheinu Melech ha-olam, shelo asani ishah; "Blessed are You, O Lord our God, Ruler of the Universe, Who did not make me a woman." At the same time, women are instructed to say a prayer praising God for making them "according to God's will." This women's prayer encourages women to accept their fate, the same destiny which the men rejoice in having avoided. Is this a prayer that you all have in your hearts to this day?

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

Each morning, when Orthodox and Conservative Jews say their daily blessings, the men among them recite the following prayer: Baruch Atah Adonai, Eloheinu Melech ha-olam, shelo asani ishah; "Blessed are You, O Lord our God, Ruler of the Universe, Who did not make me a woman."

Those Jews forgot that Torah teaches us to respect all people, love all people, and neither hold grudges against people. The attitude that modern day jews have are similar to the hypocritical attitudes that the Pharisees, who encountered Yeshua, had.

[James Pierce]

Moreh,

You are right. Most Christians do not know the difference between the Torah & The Talmud. They always put them together as if they are one.