KING JAMES VERSION ~~ An authority?~~~~ or ~~~ A Hindrance to Christianity ?

[Dr. Brenice Aliyah Fireangel]

Who has made the King James Version of the Bible, " The Authoritative Version?

What View of the Torah does it foster?

Should we rely more upon a Hebraic Version of the Torah?

Why is everyone so attached to the King James Version, in the West?

Brenice FireAngel

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

Here is your answer concerning the new covenant, and what it contains. read every word bro. Its as follows:

Jeremiah 31:31,"Behold, the days are coming, declares Yehwah, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Yisrael and the house of Yehudah."

This is one scripture that is surely worth noting, because this scripture, at least the phrase "new covenant" is the center of debate, and is missed by many Christians. Most Christians that I have spoken with believe that they are under the new covenant, and that this new covenant was made with them... without the Torah. They insist on believing that this new covenant was made with them, and that they do not have to follow the Torah of Yehwah our Father.

But, the truth is, this new covenant was not made with Gentiles, rather, as Yahuweh said in Jeremiah 31 & Hebrews 8,"I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Yehudah."The Hebrew people are the ones that Yehwah, initially, has made the covenant with, and no one else. This covenant includes the following decrees:

1) I will put my Torah within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people(verse 33). This actually means that your life will be directed, controlled, and governed by the Torah. The "heart" in the Hebraic understanding is the seat of one's moral and ethical decisions, the place where one decides. The phrase "I will be their God, and they my people" is a familiar phrase, which connects with God governing you by his Torah, and that is also in the book of revelation. Revelation 21:3,"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God." How do man become Yahuweh's people? It is by being under the new covenant WITH its three decrees, and that truly includes obedience to the Torah.

2) And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know Yehwah,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares Yehwah(verse 34). To "know Yehwah" makes use of the word "know" (yadah in Hebrew) in a technical sense relative to covenant making. To "know Yehwah" does not mean to "know about Yehwah," but to "know" Him in a covenant sense(i.e., to be loyal to Him in regard to the covenant decrees). In short, to "know Yehwah" means to be obedient to Him by keeping the commandments of the covenant He has made.

3) For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more(verse 34). This was done, of course, when Yeshuah came, for his blood covers our sins, never to be remembered anymore. Yeshuah said in Matthew 26:27-28,"And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."

The above three decrees are included in this new covenant, and were only made with Yisrael & Yehudah. But what about Gentiles, you may ask? Well, Gentiles who convert to the Jewish faith will be under the three decrees of the new covenant. Yahuweh will write the Torah on the Gentiles hearts and minds, they will know Yehwah in the covenant sense, and He will forgive them of their sins.

I want those who believe that Gentiles are to keep a different Torah than what Yehwah gave to Hebrews, to consider the following verse:

Exodus 12:49,"There shall be one Torah for the native and for the stranger who sojourns among you."There is one Torah for the Hebrew & Gentile. Two Torahs do not exist. Christians love to hold to the belief that they do not have to keep the Torah, but that means they are not being faithful to the covenant decrees, and more over, not under the new covenant, and more dreadful, being Torahless.

Christians cannot come into the covenant of Yehwah, and change the Torah and times. The only spirit that does this is the spirit of the anti-Christ. Daniel 7:25,"He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the Torah." When the covenant was made, the three decrees would be here to stay, and no one can change them.. not even Christians.

Where does a Christian fit into this covenant, you may ask again? Let us look at what Paul said in Romans 11:19-20,"Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in', That is true."Christians, here the words of Yahuweh. If you claim to be under the new covenant, then you cannot come in there with the spirit of anti-christ, and try to change the times, and the Torah. You are commanded to keep Yahweh's Torah. If Jesus upheld Torah, then why not you? Do you think Paul agrees with you in not keeping Torah, thus disobeying Jesus?

If you do not want to keep his Torah, then you are not under the covenant, and you are none of his. Christians believe that Paul himself taught against the Torah. Guess what? That would make him an anti-Christ, and a hypocrite, for Paul himself said that he was a Pharisee!(Acts 23:3-6). We know its not true that Paul did not keep Torah, because the Apostles of the Lord would not have accepted him into the Apostolic community.

Paul says something in Hebrews 10:26-28,"For if we go on breaking the Torah deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the Torah of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses." This scripture truly speaks for itself.

But, is sin missing the mark, according to Christians, or breaking the Torah? 1 John 3:4,"Everyone who makes a practice of breaking the Torah also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness." If you love Yehwah, then you would keep the 10 commandments, including the Sabbath, dietary laws, clothing laws, facial, feast days, wear the tzitzit, menstural, sexual, etc etc. The only person that can make these things a burden is yourself. Do not make the Torah a burden, but live it out with joy, as Yehwah intends for you to do. He wants you to enjoy loving, and obeying him.

Paul says another thing, Eph 2:12,"remember that you were at that time separated from Messiah, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world." This was the state of Gentiles before they came to Yeshuah. They were aliens from Israel, and strangers to the covenant. Those who believe that you do not have to keep the Torah under the new covenant are still strangers to to the covenant, obviously, lost. Do not be deceived by the enemy who does not want you to obey the Father.

In closing, Yeshuah said something very great & and very scary. Matthew 7:21-23,"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of Torahlessness." Basically, those who keep not the Torah, and practice breaking the Torah, will be told to depart from He who kept Torah, Yeshuah. Them that does not keep Torah will not inherit eternal life, or the kingdomf Of God.

Now, let me make this clear, no one is saved by keeping Torah, but, upon trusting in Jesus for our salvation, we are to be obedient to him.

An excellent point, among many, to make, is that Torah will be the government of Yehwah's people in the new kingdom. This is great news, because Torah is good and righteous, and so will Yah's people. HalleluYAH! If you do not want to keep Torah, then forfeit your salvation, and eternal life, because Yehwah does not want you in his kingdom, because of your attitude and heart towards Torah. If you wore dread locks, and you loved the, then would you live in a country that forbids them, and punishes those who wear the hairstyle? Of course you would not. So, if you are against Torah, then its foolish to want to live in a kingdom that will be governed by it!

Isaiah 2:1-3: It shall come to pass in the last days
that the mountain of the house of Yehwah
shall be established as the highest of the mountains,
and shall be lifted up above the hills;
and all the nations shall flow to it,
and many peoples shall come, and say:
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of Yehwah,
to the house of the God of Jacob,
that he may teach us his ways
and that we may walk in his paths.”
For out of Zion shall go the Torah,
and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

Isaiah 66:22-23: For as the new heavens and the new earth
that I make
shall remain before me, says Yehwah,
so shall your offspring and your name remain.
From new moon to new moon,
and from Sabbath to Sabbath,
all flesh shall come to worship before me,
declares Yehwah.

Trevor, the above scriptures reveal to us that Torah will be the government of the new kingdom. Rev 22:15,"Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." You stated that Torah will not be the government. If this is the case, then verse 15 is false. These people should be allowed in because Torah is not here. All the sin they wanna do. But, Trevor, you know its not true, and you know Torah will be here.

Open your heart from its hardened state! Rev 21:26,"But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life." No Torah breaker will be here. Trevor, if you're planning to be in this kingdom, then its time to be obedient!

Again, Trevor, the levitical priesthood is done away. Its no need to sacrifice animals for sin. Yeshuah did that once and for all! You mentioned something about the curse of the Torah. According to Duet 30, the curse of Torah is "death and evil." Them who are in Yeshuah are not under this curse. Torah also has "life and good." It is them that do Torah who will live.

Yeshuah said it best in Matt 19:17,"If you would enter life, keep the commandments." Rev 22:13,"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Trevor, who will you listen to.. YOUR version of a Paul that is lawless, and teaches others to be lawless, or Yeshuah, who followed and taught Torah, and commanded his followers to follow and teach it?

Those who claim that the law is abolished, done away, and do not need to be practiced under the "new covenant", needs to take a look back at Jeremiah 31:31-34 & Hebrews 8:8-12, and the decrees, and repent of their Torah breaking, or else they will be told to depart from the Lord. Repent(turn to Yahuweh via his Torah), place your faith in Jesus for salvation, and live a holy life by keeping the Torah. LIVE!!!!!!

[Dr. Brenice Aliyah Fireangel]

Brenice : Brother Trevor
It was not lack of audacity that you have not received an answer to your question. Better yet, it was because I felt I had answered your questions , quite sufficiently before. Pardon me if you were offended. I do not wish to do any such thing to any brother or sister, so forgive my ignorance to the fact that you were not replied to adequately., O K!
__________________________
Trevor
Now how can one go from circumcision to uncircumcision? The only way Paul was speaking of was no longer living as GOD had him/her had ordained for that person. He also, spoke of the opposite, one going from uncircumcision to circumcision, meaning living from one without the life of a Torah-keeper to the life that resembled that of a devout Jew.

This cannot be denied or danced around: Paul basically said if you weren't doing it before, don't start now; if you were doing it before, don't stop.

Brenice
My brother, Paul was simply speaking of those who felt they had to become converts to Judaism as was practiced [ proselytes ].
Because Yahshua had brought man back to Yahweh through his shedding of his blood on the cross and the tearing of the veil in the Holy of Holies. REDEMPTION !

JEWS PRACTICED JUDASIM , WHILE BEING COMPLETED JEWS , SINCE HIS SACRIFICIAL DEATH.(THROUGH YAHSHUA)

GENTILES , HAVING ACCESS TO YAHWEH THROUGH YAHSHUA.


This was not meant for the rest of Torah (Laws of conduct) The change was heart circumcision vs genetile circumcism of the Abrahamic Covenant.

There were man Covenants. Adamic, Noahic, Abrahamic, Jacob, Moses, Joshua , Yahshua
Did they cease from abiding to Torah, No!, I do not think so!.

So why are messianic-believers to think we are not to obey Torah.[ Minus (blood sacrifices of all kind.) which did include circumcision as a blood sacrifice]




Trevor
One last NT scripture for you:

Revelation 22 shows that Sabbaths will not exists in the Kingdom, so how is the Sabbaths and the Law going to govern us?

The choice is yours: either Moses or CHRIST......



Brenice
Yahshua did not renounce anything of Moses, even when they tried to trick Yahshua regarding the question about marriage


MT 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses f because of the hardness of your hearts g suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
(f) Being brought about because of the hardness of your hearts.
(g) By a political law, not by the moral law: for the moral law is a perpetual law of God’s justice; the other bows and bends as the carpenter’s bevel.
MT 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] h for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
(h) Therefore in these days the laws that were made against adulterers were not regarded: for they would have no need of divorce, if the marriage had been severed by punishment of death.
MT 19:10 His disciples say unto him, If the i case of the man be so with [his] wife, it is not good to marry.
(i) If the matter stands in this way between man and wife, or in marriage.
MT 19:11 3 But he said unto them, All [men] cannot k receive this saying, save [they] to whom it is given.
(3) The gift of celibacy is peculiar, and therefore no man can set a law to himself of perpetual celibacy.
(k) Receive and admit, as by translation we say, that a straight and narrow place is not able to receive many things.
MT 19:12 For there are some l eunuchs, which were so born from [their] mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have m made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive [it], let him receive [it].
(l) A man can become a eunuch in one of two ways: the first is by castration or emasculation, and the other by natural causes, such as a rupture.
(m) Who abstain from marriage, and live as celibates through the gift of God.
MT 19:13 4 Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put [his] hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
(4) The elect infants and little children are contained in the free covenant of God. (Ed.)
MT 19:16 5 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
(5) Those who seek to be saved by the law do not even know the law themselves.
MT 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If n thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.
(n) The young man did not answer truly in saying that he had kept all the commandments: and therefore Christ sets forth an example of true charity before him, to show the disease that lay lurking in his mind.
MT 19:23 6 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
(6) Rich men have need of a singular gift of God to escape out of the snares of Satan.
MT 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is o easier for a p camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
(o) Literally, "it is of less labour".
(p) Theophylact notes, that by this word is meant a cable rope, but Caninius alleges out of the Talmuds that it is a proverb, and the word "Camel" signifies the beast itself.
MT 19:28 7 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the q regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
(7) It is not lost, that is neglected for God’s sake.
(q) The regeneration is understood to mean that day when the elect will begin to live a new life, that is to say, when they will enjoy the heavenly inheritance, both in body and soul.
MT 19:30 8 But many [that are] first shall be last; and the last [shall be] first.
(8) To have begun well, and not to continue unto the end, is not only unprofitable, but also hurts very much.


Trevor
If we are not in the Old Covenant, but in the New Covenant, then why are you all looking for the Old Covenant's seal and deal?

Brenice
Even John The Baptist gave His explanation of neither Jew nor gentile having a reason to
To boast about anything other than the baptism with fire Yahshua would have to give each believer. Nothing was said about not obeying Torah.

Then went out to him g Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,

(g) The people of Jerusalem.

MT 3:6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, h confessing their sins.

(h) Acknowledging that they were saved only by free remission and forgiveness of their sins.

MT 3:7 2 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

(2) There is nothing that shuts up the way of mercy and salvation from us so much as the opinion of our own righteousness does.

MT 3:8 3 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

(3) True repentance is an inward thing which has its seat in the mind and heart.

MT 3:9 4 And i think not to say k within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

(4) The faith of the fathers does not benefit you unbelieving children at all: and yet for all that, God does not play the liar, nor deal unfaithfully in his covenant which he made with the holy fathers.
(i) Think not that you have any reason to be proud of Abraham.
(k) In your hearts.

MT 3:11 5 I indeed baptize you with water unto l repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and [with] fire:

(5) We may neither dwell upon the signs which God has ordained as means to lead us into our salvation, neither upon those that minister them: but we must climb up to the matter itself, that is to say, to Christ, who inwardly works that effectually, which is outwardly signified to us.
(l) The outward sign reminds us of this, that we must change our lives and become better, assuring us as by a seal, that we are ingrafted into Christ; by which our old man dies and the new man rises up; (Romans 6:4).
This is done , my dear Trevor, through the power of the Holy Spirit of Yahshua and the Torah!.!!



Shalom
Brenice

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

The Torah had no power to save, only the power to convict one of sin! It was a mirror to show you error. CHRIST is now your mirror, not to show you what not to do, but what to do.

And I STILL hold strong to what Paul said in 1st Corinthians 7. Now how can one go from circumcision to uncircumcision? The only way Paul was speaking of was no longer living as GOD had him/her had ordained for that person. He also, spoke of the opposite, one going from uncircumcision to circumcision, meaning living from one without the life of a Torah-keeper to the life that resembled that of a devout Jew.

This cannot be denied or danced around: Paul basically said if you weren't doing it before, don't start now; if you were doing it before, don't stop. You are constantly speaking of Jewish proselytes, but that wasn't PAul's focus, though he did convert many of them. He focused on GENTILES!

[Minister QGAgnew]

Just to answer your question about a new contract Sir,and keeping it in the spiritual relm,like the old testament,these were the rules of application,but now you send your represenative (Jesus) to change the contract,I would consider this an addendum,because the terms have changed ,and so has the currency to be used to pay off the contract[His blood] But the project still has to have a foundation,[the old contract] Been reading this post for a while,watching the views of many,and I feel your question should have made it simple for many!The king James version in my opinion is a good starting point for many,as myself it was one of my first bibles,before my faith,had me seeking and my one book turned into a LIBRARY>
PEACE!

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Your statements hold weight my brother. Interestingly enough though, there are many that do not understand the foundation of the contracts. This goes hand in hand with when James, Peter, and John saw Moses and Elijah meet with CHRIST. Peter said lets build three tabernacles ; one for Moses (Torah), one for Elijah (the Prophets) and one for JESUS (the new covenant). That idea was shut down when the FATHER spoke and after the light was gone, so was Moses (Torah) and Elijah (Prophets), leaving only JESUS (the new covenant) to stand before them. How can you build three tabernacles off of one foundation? Peter said "thou are the CHRIST, the Son of the living GOD". JESUS then told him that upon this Rock (being the faith that JESUS is the Son of GOD) I will build My Church. There left no room for Moses (Torah) or Elijah (O.T. Prophets) to build a Church upon, nor even to build a Tabernacle for.

Over all, JESUS didn't change any contract. He made a completely NEW one because the old one expired (Hebrews 8:13).

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Bro. James:

Your statements are respect and I read it straight through. I don't argue that there is to be one Torah for both Jew and Gentile. There is but one aw to govern all, and it is NOT the law of Moses, but the Law of Christ. Your quote Jeremiah 31 & Hebrews 8:8-12 so well and easily, but you never responded to my past statement. Therefore, I'll bring it right back to you again:

Why didn't you go and quote Hebrews 8:13 and Hebrews chapter 9 for us? Don't they count for something?

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

My brother, the law of Christ includes Torah. It does not exclude it, neither is there evidence that it excludes it! To answer your question, I believe I covered that in my post. In verse 13, when speaking of having a new covenant, thus making the old one obsolete; we already know what the author of Hebrews is referring to. It is the priesthood. He could not have been talking about all the Torah, otherwise The Torah would not have been a decree in the new covenant!

Yeshuah is the high priest of the new covenant. Chapter 9 is the same thing, for that whole chapter exclusively refers to the temple duties. Its not neccessary for those. Chapter 9 does not mention anything about Shabbat, or any other laws in the Torah, for they are STILL in effect. Hebrews 4:9 in the aramaic bible,"It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the Sabbath." Your questions have been answered.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

I said this before and it was ignored, so I'll say it again:

You do well to quote Hebrews 8:8-12. I cannot and did not deny the truth of it. However, according to Hebrews 8:13 (a verse you have so many times PURPOSELY excluded): "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

Since this is not just a verse or two, but a whole epistle to the Hebrews, lets continue on to see what the writer said in Hebrews 9:

1Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
2For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
3And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
4Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
5And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercy seat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
6Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
7But into the second went the high priest alone once every year (speaking of keeping a Feast day, Yom Kippor), not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
8The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. (showing the lack of power of the Sabbaths, food ordinances, feast days to free us from sin)
11But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

These verse deal more than with the priestly offices, but the ENTIRE OLD COVENANT BEING OBSOLETE!

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

If the entire OT is obsolete, then why will it, according to Isaiah 2 & 66, be the government of the new heavens and earth?

Why is the Torah decreed in the new covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34 & Hebrews 8:8-12 if its supposed to be obsolete?

If Hebrews talks about the levitical priesthood being obsolete, then why do you insist on inserting that the whole Torah is done way?

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Did I insert the entire Torah myself, or did the writer? Did the writer only isolate the priesthood, or did he also refer to the entire covenant being obsolete? You keep quoting part, but won't go further in. QUOTE THE REST!

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

I have no problems quoting the rest, but quoting is not even half of what you need for full interpretation. It does not take a rocket scientist to know that Hebrews is referring to the Priesthood. You did not address my questions either. Until you can find a way to remove Torah from being on the hearts of Yah's people, you literally do not have a case! Stop fighting Torah and start keeping Torah.

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

actually READ the book of Hebrews with Torah in mind, and you'll see which part of Torah Hebrews is referring to. Also, read leviticus alongside it! I also notice that when I revealed to you that Torah will be the government of the new heavens and earth, you rejected it, and posted rev 22.. thinking it will save your beliefs, but it did no such thing. Isaiah made it clear, and its up to you to open your heart!