MASTURBATION - WHY ARE WE AFRAID TO ADDRESS THIS TOPIC IN THE CHURCH?

[HOPE - Psalm 43:5]

MASTURBATION - WHY ARE WE AFRAID TO ADDRESS THIS TOPIC IN THE CHURCH?




Is this one of the "taboo" topics where you worship?

Do you or does your Pastor or Ministry leader dare talk about such things with the Body of Believers??

And if we don't teach the people about the various sub-topics under Sex/Sexual Relationships, then where will they get the information from? Will it be a godly source?

Why do a lot of leaders give the impression that sex education is for teenagers and young adults and singles and should not also include the milddle aged and senior citizens who are also dabbling or habitually paticipating in sexual immorality of ANY kind?

Is this a topic that we are embarrassed to even discuss here on BPN??

ALSO.....


Many Belivers refer to masturbation as "Onanism"

According to the text in Genesis 38, after God had killed Onan's older brother Er, Judah asked Onan to have sex with Tamar, Er's widow, so that the offspring could be declared Er's heir. Onan had sex with Tamar, but performed coitus interruptus each time, spilling his "seed" (semen) on the ground, so that there would not be any offspring which he could not claim as his own. The passage states that this displeased God, who killed him.

Why was God upset with Onan? Is it what we have attributed to Onan's name or could it have been something else?

What are your thoughts and/or comments?

[HOPE - Psalm 43:5]

ZEALOT, you also said:


It's even possible for some men to look at porn without hurting their wives or girlfriends. Most of the time the woman is mainly concerned that he might leave her or that he will stop loving her. Love is what has to be maintained and if by watching porn a man is not loving his wife then he is wrong. If someone masturbates in a way that isn't abusing his wife's love then that action becomes wrong. But masturbation in and of itself isn't wrong.


HMMMM.... (eyebrow raised)....

.... Why do single or married men and women watch porn?

What need does porn meet?

Is is ok for the husband who watches it to request that the wife act out those activities with him after he's enjoyed the "show"?

Is porn a guide to satisfying sex in some way?

Do you know of married Believers who are ok with porn in the home for the sake of "spicing up" their sex lives?


ZEALOT, you said:

But masturbation in and of itself isn't wrong.

Does this apply to what you mentioned earlier about porn? What if we coupled them together...

Is there any Biblical foundation for it being ok to watch porn and act out what you've seen (married couples)

Is there any Biblical foundation for it being ok for a single man or woman to watch porn and then masturbate during or afterwards?

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

Has anyone ever heard of celibacy?

I thank God for it as a single woman.

I concur with ZealotX, masturbation is unnatural and it is a sin.

[Zealot X]

celibacy is good but it is much harder to do if you have already had sex. Still... not impossible. It just takes willpower to deny yourself. But as Paul said... its better to get married than to burn in your lusts. So it is good to have a legal outlet for sexual appetite than to be tormented or afflicted by sexual desire. Catholic priests try to be celibate and many are but many of them have sex with nuns and others.... well... you know.

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

ZealotX,

Celibacy is not as difficult as some make it out to be, especially if you seek the Lord to sustain you. I will not say that urges do not come up, but they can become more easily suppressed when you shift your focus to the Lord and call on Him to replace those urges and thoughts. If you continue seeking God in this manner, these urges become less and easier to cast down.

I'm speaking from experience.

[HOPE - Psalm 43:5]

Chaplain Pat, I was thinking about what you said here and what I know is that ANYTHING that causes me to lose focus on the Lord is not good for me. Like Peter walking on water. Even if it is ok for another person to enjoy those things (as a liberty), it may not be good for me. So for topics like these, we all speak from both knowledge of God's Word and our own
experience and our own personal relationship with the Lord.

Like you, I'm not married (well at least not anymore --but that's a whole other bag of beans LOL). Anyway, I think about what I'm thinking about and why I'm thinking about it. I agree with you that when urges come God will replace those urges. But that's just the route we choose to go. If I don't want to masturbate, I don't have to. It's as simple as that. I can just go do something else. Exercise, clean up, watch tv, call up a friend and chat about nothing, or whatever.

I've been practicing 2 Cor 10:5 (even though it speaks of spiritual warfare, the portion where it tells us to take our thoughts captive is relevant to all areas of our lives). Well, I've been practicing that for years. There are some women who just go into "heat" like a dog... No, I'm not bashing them but it is hormonally true. You've got to be able minister to them about that very real situation instead of letting them just wing it. Or giving them a super spiritual answer with two scriptures and sending them on their way. This is how people fall because the church just won't talk frankly about certain "taboo" topics.

I was like that woman in heat... for years!! I didn't know WHAT the heck was going on with my body. And finally I talked to a friend who was a nurse and she told me I needed to be on hormone therapy to regulate my hormones. I mean I was having mood swings like crazy, and feeling this "heat" like you wouldn't believe, my periods were outta wack. Friends, I remembe one time thinking telling the Lord that He'd better hurry up and send me a husband because I was gonna pounce on the next man I saw LOL. But praise God for information and communication. We don't have to remain ignorant about physiological issues that affects how we feel and even what we do. We CAN take our thoughts captive and make them obey Christ. We really don't have to give in to every emotion and feeling just because the emotions and feelings are very real and very present.

I'm a chocolate fanatic! But I don't have to eat chocolate every time I have a craving for it because of what it does to my thoughts and my body. For others, it may have no affect whatsoever. We have to be in tune to who we are specifically.

The craving for chocolate or even being "sexually excited" is real and there is nothing wrong with either feeling; it's what we decide to do with it that may cause us harm or develop a habit that we will have to try so desperately to break later on in life.

Man, I really admire all of you for posting comments. I thought I was going to hear "crickets chirpping" when I posted this topic.

It seems that there really are some Believers who can just talk and not be super spiritual all the time.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Ninja X, thats their fault! No where in the Bible does it say that Priests or Bishops are to strictly be celibate all the days of their lives, but somewhere along the line, some council of "wise men" thought it was a good idea to stay single. This actually contradicts the Bible and the lifestyle of their claimed first apostle, Peter.

[Zealot X]

Thanks Trevor, this is the kind of real talk a lot of us are trying to get out of Christian because a lot of what has been done has simply become tradition and even though it really has nothing to do with the bible its still done and held as a standard that is difficult for people to follow.

The irony is that these traditions are the SAME kind of traditions the Pharisees instituted in order to APPEAR extra righteous on the outside. So Christianity (and I say Christianity in general because at "that time" there were no "denominations". It was all the Catholic church and the Ethiopian church because they stayed separate), at least the one American churches came out, invented extra rules that actually made things worse. When I think about priests trying to be celibate to the point that they start touching children.... your mind has to be so warped just to get to that point. But this is why the NT comes down hard against these kinds of man-made traditions that do not lead anyone to YHWH and often make it harder for people to be righteous. When man makes rules they are often a reflection of his own corruption. Corrupt people seek power and control over people. It becomes more about control than having a righteous society where people aren't hurting each other. So that's why we divide the things that are the commandments of YHWH from the things that are the traditions of man.

I had to throw that in there as a side note but I don't have any intention of going off subject.

Shalom

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

You have some goood goood knowledge, and I agree with you 1000%. Great Great POst Sister!!!

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

Excellent points made on all sides YahWeh.

I, too am equipped with the gift of celibacy with no complaints, and will remain content while living the single lifestyle.

[Zealot X]

well... here come the stones....

What I am saying here is mainly my own personal opinion so anyone wishing to attack me for it may do so.

Sex in the ancient world was..... very different than it is now. Today we have attached extra layers of "civilization" on top of it so that we don't feel like animals in our skin.

The main reason single or married men and women watch porn is for stimulation, not because they want to have an affair with the "porn stars" on screen. Those acting out pornography are basically selling their bodies. Selling your body in ancient times was considered to be a shame on your father (who was supposed to take care of you so you wouldn't have to do something like that, degrading yourself) but there were plenty of whores in ancient times and Judah thought he was sleeping with an anonymous whore who he talked about as if he was asking for directions to the grocery store.

"Hey where is that whore who was here the other day so I can pay her?"

...is basically what he said. But no one ever said anything to him about being a John. Again... I don't want to get into the oldest profession in this thread but the story is very curious from that perspective and shows how men especially in ancient times thought and behaved. Of course they didn't have porn back then so prostitution is the closest thing. Tamar had literally ever expectation that Judah was going to want to pay for her services if he thought she was a whore. And he did. Odd.... no? And of course she was in trouble until she revealed who here John was and even then, what he blamed himself for was not his own hand in prostitution, but for driving her to do it because he did not give her to one of his sons because he was afraid they would die too.

It wasn't just prostitutes that figure into my interpretation about life in ancient times. We also know that men had concubines.

Main Entry: con·cu·bine
Pronunciation: \ˈkäŋ-kyu̇-ˌbīn, ˈkän-, -kyü-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin concubina, from com- + cubare to lie
Date: 14th century
: a woman with whom a man cohabits without being married: as a : one having a recognized social status in a household below that of a wife b : mistress 4a

Abraham had a wife who offered her servant Hagar to be his CONCUBINE so that he could have a child by her. This seems to be common. Jacob's two wives also gave him of their servants to be his concubines so that they could have children by them.

There are laws regarding women being "sold" and "given" as wives. We still "give brides away" but there's no dowry involved. Please do not think I am a pig. I'm not expressing my own desires or how I think about women. I certainly do not think of women as commercial products. And I don't think many of them did either. But sex was indeed seen as a commercial product. It was a shameful product for the women but it was not regulated by law. Fornication is a word that people apply to basically all sex outside of marriage. Actually, it is more specific to illicit or unlawful sex. If you have an agreement with someone to provide a service..... nah.... let me not go all the way there. Suffice it to say that men and women basically entered into agreements with each other to provide sex. In modern times this extends to sexual stimulation.

Sexual stimulation is all about the mind. You can feel horny because you mind wants to have this "release" but it may be difficult without stimulation. For many people physical stimulation is enough but for others they rely on mental stimulation. When men go to donate semen or whatever these places usually have pornography to help stimulate the men so they can ejaculate. For a lot of men it would be better if they did watch porn instead of involving women in their lives just to satiate their sexual appetite. We have an entire culture centered around meeting people in bars, getting them intoxicated, and having sex with them. This is something I have never done. What makes this worse is the deception and the game people play.

Traditionally, we have been taught that sex should only be done inside of marriage. That I agree with. But is masturbation sex? Can masturbation create fatherless children? Sometimes a lack of sexual fulfillment can cause many more problems in a marriage than any amount of masturbation because a sexually frustrated person tends to not be so happy and it can build resentment and makes this person an easier prey for fornication. Of course Tiger Woods was dead wrong and there's not excuse for that. But a lot of men just aren't satisfied enough at home and its not always their fault. I would NEVER even be tempted to have sex with another woman who isn't my wife because my wife lacks nothing in that department and I'm always satisfied. But have we never masturbated? We both have. But we're both very happy and typically stay that way.

So the biblical foundations I would cite would be various things ranging from straight out prostitution to concubines to women who were basically sold to become wives. And these things happened for various reasons but you can't take the sexual reasons out of them just because they sound naughty. Sex is an area that many are afraid to reconsider longstanding traditions because they are afraid of how people will treat them. I fully expect to be treated badly simply for saying what I have said in this thread already. I know what tradition says, but what does YHWH say? What doesn't he say? It is definitely a shame for sex to be sold. No question there. But sex and sexual stimulation are often demonized as more of an over reaction to core values.

Adultery is about hurting someone to whom someone belongs. But if you see a man and your body reacts (they could be fully clothed) or if a man sees a woman and his body reacts.... these are often knee jerk reactions to what our minds find attractive. Now a lot of this has to do with us living in an over-sexed society with tons of commercials packed with sexual propaganda and subliminal messages. But its a natural process often manipulated and if nothing else we should avoid hurting anyone. Now if masturbation is hurting your self then you should stop. And if you think watching porn is a sin then it is a sin to you. If you think having sex with a prostitute is a sin then it is a sin to you. If you ever think you are doing wrong then you probably are. Why? Because its more about your intent and motivations coming to life. You can get married to one woman and it still be a sin because you did not love her. Or you deceived her. That was the problem with Onan. What he was getting in this little exchange was actually legal but the deception wasn't. She was hurt by it and that is where the wrong was. Even though he was SUPPOSED to have sex with her it became wrong because of his intent to deceive.

This is not something I expect people to understand. People have a tendency to judge things by the surface.



shalom

[HOPE - Psalm 43:5]

LOL - I laugh because VERY FEW folks on BPN would dialogue about sexual topics in-depth the way you have here.

I wonder what would happen if we were a tad bit more open to dialogue about what we believe or even what we DO (as you have done here) versus the shackles or shame of "what happens at home stays at home".

Zealot, some will agree with ALL of what you have said, some will agree with only portions of what you have said, and some may disagree with you completely.

I appreciate your transparency and honesty and willingness to share your opinion.

Thanks!

[Evangelist Altha Fugett]

Zealot, not a stone, but an admonishment, the bible states lay aside that weight that so easily besets you. Some men and women cannot handle porno, just like some cannot handle alcohol, drugs, whatever. Porno of course can be a stimulant, but it also can be catapult to sin, if one is not married what do you need a stimulant for? FORNICATION? If one is attracted to a porno queen or king that is attached, what good is that stimulant for? ADULTERY?


I understand that a married man and woman may want to engage in this type of viewing to enhanced their union, however that is dangerous ground, how does one know that they engaging with their spouse and their spouse is engaging with them, or an illusion of the person in the porno film? that would be sleeping wih a lie?