MASTURBATION - WHY ARE WE AFRAID TO ADDRESS THIS TOPIC IN THE CHURCH?

[HOPE - Psalm 43:5]

MASTURBATION - WHY ARE WE AFRAID TO ADDRESS THIS TOPIC IN THE CHURCH?




Is this one of the "taboo" topics where you worship?

Do you or does your Pastor or Ministry leader dare talk about such things with the Body of Believers??

And if we don't teach the people about the various sub-topics under Sex/Sexual Relationships, then where will they get the information from? Will it be a godly source?

Why do a lot of leaders give the impression that sex education is for teenagers and young adults and singles and should not also include the milddle aged and senior citizens who are also dabbling or habitually paticipating in sexual immorality of ANY kind?

Is this a topic that we are embarrassed to even discuss here on BPN??

ALSO.....


Many Belivers refer to masturbation as "Onanism"

According to the text in Genesis 38, after God had killed Onan's older brother Er, Judah asked Onan to have sex with Tamar, Er's widow, so that the offspring could be declared Er's heir. Onan had sex with Tamar, but performed coitus interruptus each time, spilling his "seed" (semen) on the ground, so that there would not be any offspring which he could not claim as his own. The passage states that this displeased God, who killed him.

Why was God upset with Onan? Is it what we have attributed to Onan's name or could it have been something else?

What are your thoughts and/or comments?

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Whats sad is that they do not hold REAL marriage counseling seminars and classes, addressing sex. A REAL seminar would talk about sex in an intimate way, but sadly, people blush too quickly. The problem then leaves the issues on the table for Christians to get caught up in:

- pornography
- oral sex
- anal sex
- orgies
- masturbation

...and the lust...er, pardon me, the "list" can go on! The ONLY two I see on the list that is ok for married couples are masturbation and oral sex. The rest go down the toilet of sin!

Pornography- The word derives from the Greek πορνογραφία (pornographia), which derives from the Greek words πόρνη (pornē, "prostitute" and pornea, "prostitution"), and γράφω (graphō, "I write or record," derived meaning "illustration," cf. "graph"), and the suffix -ία (-ia, meaning "state of," "property of," or "place of"), thus meaning "a written description or illustration of prostitutes or prostitution."

Masturbation- The word masturbation is believed to derive from either the Greek word mezea (μεζεα, "penises") or the Latin manus ("hand") and the Latin turbare ("to disturb").[6] A competing etymology based on the Latin manu stuprare ("to defile with the hand") is said by the Oxford English Dictionary to be an "old conjecture".

Watch your steps people!

[Zealot X]

Who made the dictionary? What does the bible say? It's one thing to use the dictionary to define a word but what you don't have to do is derive theology from it.

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

Call me conservative . . .but what is the purpose of discussing this topic in such intimate detail on a public forum?

The Bible does not address this topic in such detail, so why are we?

There are "babes in Christ" who are visiting this website and for them to read such explicit commentaries can only confuse them to say the least.

I am not impressed nor enthused by this thread.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Quite frankly Chaplain, its usually the babes in Christ that stumble the fastest and the most concerning this topic, therefore they need this! The babes are coming out of situations like what I mentioned, so you better mention it lest they return! Be real with the people Chaplain. You have to set what is right and what is wrong before them plainly. Babies don't stay babes long ya know. Babies are fed so that they can grow up. Maturity and experience in the knowledge of our Lord and the Kingdom of GOD and His righteousness is what qualifies one to be considered an adult, but they will never get there if you never provide it for them.

This is not for impressing or making you or any of you enthusiastic; this is for the edification of the saint within this particular area of their lives.

Enough candy, eat your vegeies and liver. Some of the stuff we call meat is hot dog and mystery meat......

[Zealot X]

This is why not everything was outlawed in Torah; because if you were outlaw everything that would lead some people astray then you would have to outlaw EVERYTHING. You as a person have to keep yourself from things that you have a problem with. For instance, it is the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil. But at the same time it says money answers all things (although it should be kept in context). So even though money can corrupt you that doesn't mean it will. I mean the reality is that everything in this world can be used for both good and evil. And so you have to overcome evil within yourself so that you don't use everything around you in way that brings destruction upon yourself and the world around you.

Honestly, back in the day I did have issues which is how I know things can get out of hand. But I also realized by ignoring a problem or keeping yourself from temptation doesn't mean you're cured. Fortunately, I wasn't involving any women in my issues so it never got to the point where it hurt anyone else. Most men will eventually be tempted or have the opportunity to cheat or have a sexual relationship with someone they shouldn't. Ignoring a problem by trying to dodge it may only work until that one woman comes along and starts flirting with you. I have never cheated on any woman I've ever been with. But I've also never allowed myself to become too sexually frustrated. And after a while of consciously controlling yourself you get better discipline. But you have to understand how these sexual urges work, how they are produced by your body and how your mind works and is stimulated. The more you understand the process the more conscious of it you can become and the more you can do about it.


Shalom

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

This is why not everything was outlawed in Torah; because if you were outlaw everything that would lead some people astray then you would have to outlaw EVERYTHING.

Give me a couple of examples of the things that were not outlawed in the Torah.

[HOPE - Psalm 43:5]

The reason I posted this topic is because people actually ask the closed-ended, Yes or No question, "Is it wrong to masturbate?" and they typically don't get a yes or no right off the bat. They get a discourse where you have to figure out if the answer is yes or no. I encourage you to answer Yes or No to a person and THEN give your explanation. If it is merely your opinion you can say, "in my opinion the answer is Yes/No" and then tell them why you beleive that.

OR

An even better answer would be to tell the person that it is not a question that can be answered YES or NO with biblical text that addresses masturbation SPECIFICALLY.

What I like about several of my brothers and sisters here on BPN is whether we agree with their opinons/comments or not, we know EXACTLY where they stand on a topic.

Now with that said, I guess you guys are wondering what my answer is? Well...

IN MY OPINION the answer to the question at hand is -that it is not a question that can be answered YES or NO with biblical text that addresses masturbation SPECIFICALLY but I will more than happy to give you my opinion and a scripture that I base it upon. (smile)

Married Couples - need to dialogue honestly about what pleases and displeases them sexually so that they can have a fulfilling sexual relationship. They should search the scriptures together for a firm foundation on what they plan on allowing and not allowing in their marriage bed.

Singles - Celibacy is what you got - like it or not. Its like giving an infant something filled with sugar instead of something naturally sweet or unsweetened. If you never introduce them to the taste of sugar, they will most likey not have an uncontrollable craving for it because they won't know what they are missing. But once they taste it, they will want more and more and more and will end up as adult with a sugar habit that will need to be broken. So, I agree with Zealot that celibacy is easier when you've never had sex before. But once you've tasted the forbidden fruit, your eyes are open to both the good and the bad of it. Remember the tree in the midst of the garden, it was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Somethings, once you know, you can't "unknow". This is why I don't teach a person to ask God to "re-virginize" them. Once its gone, its gone. BUT, you can maintain a celibate life before the Lord until the time you are married. You can be pure before the Lord and men even after you have committed the sin of fornication. Though your sins be as scarlet, HE WILL wash you white as snow. Isn't that wonderful!!!???


And specifically, as for masturbation, the Bible has no specific reference to it. But I would caution a person who is single/unmarried to think about what they are thinking about when they are masturbating. Are you imagining yourself with Richard or Sally? Are you invisioning them being the person touching you while you are touching yourself. Does the image or movie of you being engaged in a sexual act with someone else play in your head while you touch yourself? And even go as far as to ask if you call out their name during masturbation? Well, my friend, you've had sex with them without even touching them just as much as Matt 5:28 says a person can commit adultery in their heart/mind without even touching the other person.

The married couple who masturbates, well again, I would refer back to my earlier comment to married couples specifically. There is a difference when a husband and wife are fantacizing about one another and them fantacizing about some other person. A husband and wife should be so excited about one another that they can't WAIT to get home to their spouse.

Can thoughts really be taken captive, transformed and renewed so you obey Christ???

If you are an ummarried person who can masturbate with a blank mind... then that's a really big "IF" my friend.

Now are there any comments about all that I've just said and the scripture I quoted?

If not, then as we read Matt 5:28- My question to you all is if a man can have an adulterous thought based on the emotions triggered by looking upon a person and desiring them sexually to the point where they even begin to imagine having sex with them... then is fornication in thoughts the same for those who are not married? (like I mentioned earlier)

Or is this one of those, "don't think about it too much just let it be what it is" topics?

[Zealot X]

I you were not able to have sexual desire for a woman you were not married to people probably wouldn't get married. The key is that it cannot be adulterous desire. You cannot desire a woman who is already taken because then it is an offense to her husband. So you can offend a woman's husband in your mind without ever touching her. This is also the same principle of the law against coveting. It doesn't say you can't want things that you don't own. But when you want things that your neighbor owns (as in not wanting something LIKE they have but wanting exactly WHAT they have) that's wrong because again.... it belongs to someone else and they can get offended.

I have a 28-inch flat screen monitor on a swivel adjustable arm at home. I fully expect that a lot of people who like computers would like to have a monitor like mine. But it crosses the line when they're wanting MY monitor and not one like it.

I also don't have a problem with another man wanting a wife LIKE mine or a relationship that is LIKE mine. But if you want MY wife or MY relationship then that crosses the line. What happens in these situations is that someone is hurt or offended. That's what the law protects. People. I believe sexual stimulation also follows the same principle. I have no problem with my wife thinking certain men look sexy or cute. The problem is wanting THEM and not being satisfied with the one she has. But fortunately that is not a problem we have. We can be honest about what we're attracted too.... big boobs... long hair.... but also perfectly satisfied with each other and constantly compliment each other so that we feel emotionally secure and protected.

Shalom

[James Pierce]

ZealotX,

Yup. I agree brother.

[Evangelist Altha Fugett]

This is very true for as I have said before, just because a man admires a woman does not mean that he wants her, and vice versa, but I disagree with your view on porno, I feel like it is an invasion into the marriage. If porno is used for masturbation I say it's wrong,the masturbation and the porno, now masturbation in the undefiled bed of marriage is a different thing.

Of course these my feelings on the matter nothing that I can back in scripture other than laying aside that weight that so easily besets you.

If you are unmarried, masturbating, that means sex is weighing on your mind, you don't want it to weigh you down

[Zealot X]

How about this.... find me a law against prostitution because I can show you a law that basically allows a woman to be sold to a man to be his wife and if she did not please him he could give her to his son, sell her to another nation, or take an additional wife.

Matthew 5:28 is being taken out of context. The point was not that you can't look at ANY woman. You cannot look at a MARRIED woman. There is no such thing as adultery with an unmarried woman.

Sexuality in the bible was different than it is today.

[Zealot X]

I respect your belief in this matter, but we disagree. You have not actually shown where these things are defined as "adultery" or "fornication". You simply married these concepts with these words that we already know are wrong. However, these words are also defined in the Scriptures. This is how we know that adultery is not just someone sleeping around. Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines. Never once does the word "adulterer" apply to his conduct. What the bible actually condemned was how his heart was turned away from YAH and he went after other gods. He also messed up by multiplying wives to himself as king. A king was allowed to have more than one but not to "amass" wives to himself. If he was being told to have only one wife then he would have also been told to have only one horse or one piece of gold; clearly not what was commanded.

David's name however, IS tied to adultery. Why? Because he slept with Uriah's wife and THEN had him killed which means she belonged to someone else when he had her. And of course when he saw her and lusted after her he had already sinned in his mind with her, which is exactly what Matthew is talking about. If it was talking about just any woman then no man would have had additional wives because in order to take on a second you would have to first want a second which probably means that you saw another woman you liked. And when David did this YHWH basically confronted him, saying

7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith YHWH G-d of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;
8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.
9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of YHWH, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.

David had 8 wives in total. But it was only when he committed adultery that YHWH called him out, saying that he had done evil. Therefore, you cannot simply dump anything you think is sexual sin into the adultery or fornication pile. It cannot be adultery unless it involves someone else's wife. And it cannot be fornication unless it is "unlawful sex". For it to be "unlawful sex" there has to be a law against it. Therefore, fornication cannot be a law unto itself.

One more note:
We should not think that YHWH would allow his people in ancient times to do ANY evil and not say anything about it. YHWH is fair and JUST. He's not partial. He's not going to say yeah... stone this dude for breaking shabbat but then let something else go and not say a WORD about it.

Furthermore, some things were considered shameful mainly because if things were as they should a person would not have to do certain things. It was a shame for a woman to sell her body however, whole people were sold all the time, to work off debt and even to be married. SOLD to be married. Isn't there some sex involved with that? How can it be shameful if it isn't wrong? Because.... it may not be YOUR fault. In other words, if your father screwed you over and didn't live up to his responsibilities to take care of you and in order to make a living you had to sell yourself or strip or whatever... that shame falls on him. Judah was upset, not because prostitution had gone on, but because it was shameful for his own daughter to have had to sell herself because of his FAILURE to give her to another of his sons. No one was trippin' because of what Judah did. If you read the story carefully, Judah made absolutely NO attempt to hide what he did. He's all like "yeah, where's that whore who was here the other day. I owe her money." This isn't a man hiding porn in his closet. And again.... there's no law against what he did and she was spared punishment, not because Judah was her John but because he had not given her to one of his sons as he was supposed to, son in fact he had DRIVEN HER to prostitution which made it HIS fault. The shame was on him.

So what I'm saying is that this thing.... was a mutual arrangement between two people. And where contracts were concerned you will mostly find YHWH supporting arrangements which is what marriage is. In a mutual agreement each party is responsible for the outcome. It's not wrong just because its not something you would agree to. That's "their" business. It was in situations where someone was getting hurt that the law stepped in. In the case of adultery there is always someone hurt. But in the case of prostitution that isn't necessarily the case, especially if the prostitute does not have a husband or a father.

YHWH made a covenant (a contract) with the nation of Yisra'el. Because the nation belonged to him it would be adultery for them to go after other gods. But he didn't call them adulterers before he had a contract with them. You can't apply adultery outside of a marriage and you can't apply fornication to something the law does not define as being unlawful.