New Covenant Debate.............

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

There has arisen an issue concerning the details of the New Covenant that our LORD and Savior YESHUA/JESUS has won for us by HIS blood and grace. Therefore, we are opening this discussion and starting it off for the edifying of the saints and the settling of the matter:

The subjects for this debate are along two lines:

-Jeremiah 31:31 and Hebrews 8: Do we still stand on the Torah?
-the Seal of the New Covenant: Is it still Sabbaths, Feasts, and Circumcision, or do we have a New Seal?

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

I have two questions for you James:

1) did you go back into my other recent posts to see my answer, or are you rudely babbling without looking?
2) did you take the time to be polite and answer Evangelist's question, or did you just ignore it (again)?

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

1) I'd say that common sense would deem you re-posting your answer where you agreed that Yehwah will make the new covenant with Israel & Judah. Also, to give me the 3 decrees in the new covenant.

2) I just answered her question.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

You are no longer being persistent in a debate, you now crossing over into rude & inconsiderate:

-you refuse to answer question yet demand yours be answered
-you refuse to check to see if answers were already given
-when things do not swing your way, you quickly change the Subject. For example, you said the Apostles taught Torah adherence, so I wanted to come from the epistles. You then said "only quote JESUS" and use OT scriptures. I quote OT scriptures, you ran to JESUS. I run to the book of Revelation, which is fully named "the Revelation of JESUS Christ", you now dip back to OT script! You said Torah, I went to Genesis, the first book of Torah and challenged you there. You refused to go there as well! Its like boxing a fighter that is trained NOT to face me head on! Scared you'd get knocked out?

Evasive is one thing, but out right rude is another. Dodging is rude and annoying. Answer a question for once!! Forget common sense, how about common courtesy?

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

I believe I stated that we will lay it all out on the table here. I have addressed your questions.. at least the ones you gave me. Now, you refuse to answer my honest questions. I think it would be honest for you to re-post the answer that you made confessing that the new covenant will be made, as Yehwah decreed, with Israel & Judah. There's no gentile in sight that He made the covenant with.

Now, you are making many excuses not to address the new covenant and its decrees. SOOOO, stop running, and face up. Because, im not running anywhere. I will answer ALL of your questions with a PROMISE. You have yet to answer some of my questions. You are persistent in answering a question WITH a question. You have really been illogical here.

What would you do if Yeshuah came down to your house right now and told,"You will either keep Torah, or suffer eternal damnation... Would you heed Messiah's word to keep Torah?

Do you agree with Paul when he said,"Keeping the commandments of God is what counts?"

The ark of the covenant disappeared from the pages of biblical history way before the time of Yeshuah. There was a temple built in Herod's time. Its possible that the ark was not even in place there. Would that stop the Priest with carrying out their duties?

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

Let me address another thing that Yeshuah told us to do. Matthew 23,"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples,“The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, so practice and observe whatever they tell you—but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice." Looks like a contradiction, right? It is. How?

A closer look at this Greek text here, Yeshuah is saying two contradictory things. He says 1) practice and observe whatever they tell you, and 2) but not what they do, for they preach, but do not practice. Its seems that Yeshuah is defeating His own words. We will either not listen to them at all, or we will observe what they say. Its impossible to listen to their commandments, and not do their commandments!

Interestingly, The Hebrew text of Matt 23 says something rather different. The Hebrew text says,"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples,“The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, so practice and observe whatever he tell you—but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice." Do you notice the differences in the text? The difference is.... Yeshuah, in the Hebrew text, is telling us to obey Moses, and not the Pharisees. The Pharisees add to Torah, and take away from it... similar to what you are doing. We have clean cut commands from Yeshuah to keep Torah.

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

Another thing is this. Duet 27,"Cursed be anyone who does not confirm the words of this law by doing them.’ And all the people shall say, Amen."

Psalm 1,"Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers; but his delight is in the law of the Lord, and on his law he meditates day and night."

Psalm 19,"The law of the Lord is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple."

Psalm 37,"The law of his God is in his heart; his steps do not slip."

Psalm 119,"I will keep your law continually, forever and ever."

When will you agree with these scriptures, the new covenant & its decrees?

What negativity do you have against keeping Yehwah's Torah?

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

2 Tim 3,"and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work." Paul said that Timothy knew the sacred writings(Torah & Prophets) since childhood. He also went on to say that the sacred writings are profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness. Will you agree with Paul and keeping Torah, for it counts?

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

If JESUS came down here and said that to me, then OF COURSE I WOULD! I agree with what Paul said as well, but you must have missed when I described the differences between the Law of Moses and the Law of CHRIST.

I also said that the new covenant was made with Israel and Judah before when you asked, but you keep asking me the SAME QUESTION time after time, page after page, as if my answers have changed! PLEASE STOP asking me the same questions over and over. If you are asking honestly, then why not take an honest moment to do an honest check on what I honestly placed before pertaining to your questions? Most sites and companies have a section in their customer service sections/sights called "frequently asked questions". Alot of your questions have now been placed there. Before you go and ask me something, how about making sure you received your answer earlier?

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

So, being that you agree that the new covenant was made with Judah & Israel, do you also agree that Gentiles are additions(grafted in) to this new covenant, and that they are to keep the same Torah and the other decrees of the new covenant as the native Hebrew(Exodus 12:49)????

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

I agree that gentiles are grafted in. I said that even BEFORE we started this debate (I'm going to be praying for your memory!!), also Apostle Paul stated that we are grafted in in Romans 11. I do NOT agree however, that we are to adhere to the Torah! We are back to square one.

I have a question, since I see that you are done bombarding me with statements: What do they teach you about evangelism in that "Church" or Synagogue of yours? Same goes to you as well Anna.

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

If you cannot agree that we will keep Torah, then its back to square one. I'll be back

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

Its time to go back to square one. You said that Gentiles that are added to the new covenant will not be keeping Torah. I have several scriptures for you that Yehwah spoke that speaks otherwise. First things first. Its illogical to raise 8 children where you have 4 keeping Torah, and the other 4 are keeping their own laws. There will not be order in the house! All are one in Yeshuah, Trevor. Can a divided house succeed, Trevor?

Yehwah has spoken in Torah these words in Exodus 12:49,"There shall be one law for the native and for the stranger who sojourns among you." If an Egyptian decides to live among the Israelites, then he cannot continue to worship Osiris & Horus. Exodus 20.. 1st commandment states that there shall be no other gods before Yehwah. Duet 4 says each person agreeing to the covenant made has to confess and decree that Yehwah is God, and there is no other. They had to come under the administration of Yehwah, and make Yehwah his God(Duet 4). Does Yehwah have a divided house in the new covenant?? if so, where is that as a decree, that His people will be divided in the new covenant??

There's one thing you must understand, Trevor, is that since you agree that this new covenant will be made with Israel & Judah, then its safe to say that it is THEIR covenant. We Gentiles are only grafted in. Eph 2:12,"remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world."

Romans 11 speaks about Gentiles being grafted in. If there is no division within the new covenant, then why do you say Gentiles, grafted into a Hebrew covenant, will not keep Torah??? If there is one Torah for both the Hebrew, and the Gentile, then why do you say that there will be two separate Torahs?? Will Yeshuah, in the new kingdom, deal with Hebrews differently than He will deal with us? Can you provide evidence from scripture? Did Yehwah EVER deal with Gentiles living with Israel different than the native Hebrews? Do you know that Yehwah spoke through Zechariah, that at the second coming of Messiah, the Gentile nations of the earth must come up to Zion to worship Yehwah, and take part in His feasts(Zech 14)?

My brother, this is the basic drawing board, and we cannot leave this new covenant debate til you see that Gentiles coming into this new covenant are commanded to keep Torah. You are being the anti-messiah, trying to change the Torah(Daniel 7:25). You disagree that Gentiles do not have to adhere to Torah, well, scripture just refuted that!. You will say,"Well you misunderstand it", or,"You are missing it", but that would just be your blind ignorance coming out. We will stay at square until you confess that Gentile will indeed keep Torah if they are to be in the HEBREW covenant.