New Covenant Debate.............

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

There has arisen an issue concerning the details of the New Covenant that our LORD and Savior YESHUA/JESUS has won for us by HIS blood and grace. Therefore, we are opening this discussion and starting it off for the edifying of the saints and the settling of the matter:

The subjects for this debate are along two lines:

-Jeremiah 31:31 and Hebrews 8: Do we still stand on the Torah?
-the Seal of the New Covenant: Is it still Sabbaths, Feasts, and Circumcision, or do we have a New Seal?

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

How about you answer my question first.

His priesthood ministry is not absent without these 3 decrees:

1) Torah written on our hearts
2) Yehwah shall be our God, and all shall know him within this covenant
3) Sin will be forgiven, and never to be remembered

My question to you is,"Why are you excluding decree #1?

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

I've been answering questions on this site for a looooong time without getting mine answered, if you haven't noticed. After I addressed yours, ALL of mine will be addressed as well. Its only polite (ESPECIALLY since ALL of minie were presented FIRST).

As for your question, I already answered it, so here is my answer again:

In the beginning of time in the land of Eden, what was GOD's law to man? We are returning to the ORIGIN, which was in YAH's plans from the beginning. A time that was not lawless, but the law was of love and fellowship. The ONLY commandments GOD meant for us to have were the ones HE gave to Adam: be fruitful & multiply, subdue the Earth. The more wicked the people, the more regulations are needed. With the indwelling of the HOLY SPIRIT however, you are no longer living by the flesh, but by the Spirit of GOD. This is where we are going back to, NOT the Torah of Moses that he received on Mt. Sinai, which was a covenant BASED on 1) the levitical priesthood, and the regulations that come with it2) the Ark of the Covenant, and 3) the sacrifice of goats and lambs. Therefore, once a person is living Christlike, their only commands are to love one another as JESUS loved us, and be fruitful and multiply (in other word, make disciples of men).

GOD's LAW IS LOVE & MAKE DISCIPLES OF CHRIST! IF YOU ARE CHRIST LIKE THEN WHAT NEED FOR TORAH?! THE LAW IS FOR THE LAWLESS!

Now, lets address my issues shall we?

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

Umm, thats actually not answering my question, but rather beating around the bush. If going back to the beginning with no Torah at all is possible, then it was a waste of time decreeing Torah in the new covenant! Now, that does not make sense now does it Trevor?

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Actually, its not before Torah. You in such a closed mind have forgotten that Genesis is the FIRST BOOK OF TORAH! The FIRST laws given were that of GOD speaking to Adam. JESUS said that the greatest commandment was the first: hear oh Israel the LORD your GOD is one, and you shall love the LORD your GOD with all your heart mind soul and strength. This is literally all that Adam had to adhere to, the first commandment. The second came when Eve came "you shall love thy neighbor as you love yourself". The second greatest didn't come before Eve because there was no neighbor for him to love. And they were not ashamed because they knew no sin whatsoever. The ONLY way sin can enter in is by a law being produced. There is a saying:"rules are made to be broken". If they never had a rule to break, then they wouldn't have ever been guilty of a sin, now would they? The more laws there are, the more opportunities for sin to enter in. This is why CHRIST said to the people only two commandments, and then to HIS disciples HE said only one: "live one another as I have love you". You can only break that in two ways: either you refuse to love as you know CHRIST loves you, or you refuse CHRIST's love in the first place. It is by this that GOD will judge, not by circumcision, Sabbaths, Feasts, rainbows, or anything else. If you can break that law James, then you truly broke them all. I can prove my point by any Epistle, can you?

I not only request that you pull your doctrine out of the epistles now, but now I DEMAND & DARE you to. No more dancing, I want my request!

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

My dare has not been challenged. I am still waiting for you to use Yeshuah as an example of setting aside Torah. If Yeshuah is the one that we are to model after, then im sure somewhere in the Gospels that you can find Yeshuah setting aside Torah so that we can do it.

Can you use Yeshuah to defend your torahlessness?

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Thats the first time you ever asked me to make such a statement, so please don't say that your dare has not been answered. I will answer it ONLY when you step up and answer mine, an answer that I have waited on for days now! No more excuses! If its there its there.

I can ALWAYS answer a question, even if you dont like my response. You however have literally refused to answer mine. Enough of that! Answer mine and prove that the Apostles didn't teach what I'm saying, or admit that you are wrong, its that simple. Anything else, and you are counted as a liar for not facing the truth. And the truth is this: that if the Apostles taught it, then JESUS taught them it. You find JESUS within all of their doctrine.

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

You have never really answered my questions straight forth. You want to use Yeshuah as your basis for refuting Torah, and so I'd like to see you show some evidence of Yeshuah going against His father's Torah. Use Yeshuah to defend your toralessness, Trevor. I'll be waiting.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

I JUST answered your question already even when I said I wouldn't until you answered mine. I said "if the Apostles taught it, then JESUS taught them it. You find JESUS within all of their doctrine." THIS IS WHY I said go into the Epistles to prove your point! It is unfair to ask for NT doctrine strictly from the Gospels because the time of the New covenant wasn't until JESUS rose again and the HOLY SPIRIT descended. That is but a short few verses. The rest of the Gospels are under the boundaries of the Old covenant.

Now answer my question, PLEASE!

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

Let us stay within the GOSPELS. You are having a HARD time doing that, because YOU KNOW you cannot use the Gospels, and Yeshuah to defend your torahlessness. Im still waiting for you to do that!

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

This is the first time you asked me to go there within the Gospels, so how are you saying that I'm having a hard time? You NEVER mentioned the Gospels before! NEVER!! I however have asked you to go to the Epistles and you STILL refuse to go there. WHY IS THAT? BECAUSE YOU AND I BOTH KNOW THAT NO APOSTLE SUPPORTS YOU!

We will stay with the Gospels when you answer my question FIRST. I have waited FAR TOO LONG for you to finally show me that respect, but by your delays, I may never be respected in such a manner. When I get my requests honored then we go where ever you want.

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

Im still waiting. You are just beating around the bush. You might be stuck in the bush; trying to find a way to defend your toralessness using Yeshuah. Where and when did Yeshuah ever speak, or act against His father's Torah? When did He not teach us Torah? When are you gonna use Messiah to prove that we are allowed to be torahless? You think that by using the Epistles, that they support your torahlessness? I think not! Blasphemous! Show me, Trevor.... when are you gonna use Messiah to prove that we are allowed to be torahless?

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

When you respect my request! ALL my answers are there.......