New Covenant Debate.............

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

There has arisen an issue concerning the details of the New Covenant that our LORD and Savior YESHUA/JESUS has won for us by HIS blood and grace. Therefore, we are opening this discussion and starting it off for the edifying of the saints and the settling of the matter:

The subjects for this debate are along two lines:

-Jeremiah 31:31 and Hebrews 8: Do we still stand on the Torah?
-the Seal of the New Covenant: Is it still Sabbaths, Feasts, and Circumcision, or do we have a New Seal?

[Evangelist Altha Fugett]

Well James fundamentally that is percieved in

Romans 13:9

For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Now a little deeper lets talk about mishpatim, sefer habrit which is an unpacking of the contents of the 10 commandments, in other words the catorgoriztion of the ten commandmentst. Now the sages maintain that YHWH gave 613 which were important, but they all did not apply to all the Hebrews.

EG the difference of how they applied to men and women? temple rituals, non Levites????

(now I'm a little slower than you, I have to use my notes)

[James Pierce]

Evan,

Romans 13:9,"For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

"and If" does not make any sense, because there ARE other commandments. Basically, Paul is agreeing with Yeshuah in saying that Torah is summed up in that commandment. Thats not evidence for only keeping ten.

The sages have that one wrong. I do not listen to sages where they contradict the WRITTEN Torah, and neither should you, Evan.

[Anna]

Sis Fugett:

Do you know about the interpolations in the NT texts?
I want to present to you the Tyndale Bible of 1535, it is questionable as to whether the phrase you underlined below is even in the original text. I will present it to you for your consideration:

Rom. 13:9
For these commaundementes: Thou shalt not comit advoutry: Thou shalt not kyll: Thou shalt not steale: Thou shalt not beare false witnes: Thou shalt not desyre and so forth
*(yf there be eny other comaundement)* they are all comprehended in this sayinge: Love thyne neghbour as thy selfe.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Words in the older and current Bibles that are in brackets or parenthesis are questionable as to their presence in the original text.

The reason why I doubt it's originality, is that there are no commandments in this text regarding our obligation towards YHWH. So OBVIOUSLY there are other commandments than those that are written here.

[Evangelist Altha Fugett]

My brothers and sisters, I take everything you say and what I have studied into consideration, but this is my problem, It merely takes a short reading of the Mosaic, Torah to see time and again the Torah is not being kept by those claiming to keep it.

In fact your leadership is saying they “try to keep it the best they can, the things that apply to them”.

How can one say they keep the law and then make statements of excuse why they don’t keep it all? You either keep it or you don’t. It’s like claiming to be a little bit pregnant. You either are or you aren’t.


James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Deu 27:26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amein.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.


Yeshua also taught to beware the leaven of the Pharisees–which was hypocrisy. That concept also needs to be applied to those claiming we need to keep the Torah when in fact they do not, nor can they.

Bottom line you guys are falling short in keeping Torah, and YHWH knew we would be unable to keep it that is why HE sent Yeshua to be our sacrifice and example and that is why Yeshua sent back to us the power of Holy Ghost to lead and guide us.

Brothers and sister, I'm free and will remain so.

[James Pierce]

Evan,

You still not have provided evidence where the Torah becomes "unliteral."

Also, Who will the new covenant be made with?

Torah is included in the new covenant.... why do you exclude it?

Can you say with Paul in 1 corin 7:18-20 that keeping God's commandments is what counts?

How can one say they keep the law and then make statements of excuse why they don’t keep it all?

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Deu 27:26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amein.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

I am not sure who made this statement. All of the above scriptures are true, and I believe that YOU YOURSELF should take heed to the above scriptures and keep Torah. You are probably referring to the temple duties in the case of us doing "what applies."

Evan, I know you have common sense. If there is no temple, then how can we possibly carry out temple duties? We do what we can apply. This is no excuse.

Yeshua also taught to beware the leaven of the Pharisees–which was hypocrisy. That concept also needs to be applied to those claiming we need to keep the Torah when in fact they do not, nor can they.

Yeshuah never said they "couldn't" keep it. He said they command to keep it, but keep none of it themselves. Duet 30:11 says that Torah is not difficult to do, neither is it far away to achieve. In other words, TORAH IS NOT A BURDEN. Do you believe Yehwah's words here?

Bottom line you guys are falling short in keeping Torah, and YHWH knew we would be unable to keep it that is why HE sent Yeshua to be our sacrifice and example and that is why Yeshua sent back to us the power of Holy Ghost to lead and guide us.

Even us who are obedient to Torah, still fall short. This is not the point. The point is being obedient in your imperfections. You know this, Evan... you are just trying to reason up excuses on why you will not keep Torah. Yeshuah did not come to die because we could not keep Torah.. He came to die because we violate Torah. He came to become the curse of Torah.. that we may live forever with Him.

You are claiming that freedom comes without Torah, But Yehwah our father proves you wrong in Duet 28-30. I suggest you read that if you are indeed hungry for truth. Your freedom will only resort to lawlessness, and that my friend is what will send you to the lake of fire(Matt 7:21-23).

Shalom

[Evangelist Altha Fugett]

Thank you! Yah's Niviim,

God's moral law I keep, and his yoke is easy! None of those I have done, HOWEVER what about all these feasts you guys want to keep? and that's not a bad thing, to know them or do them but when they are mandated like they keep us saved? What is wrong with my Sunday assembly? when I worshipped YAH everyday as well as Saturday?

Do you guys take paid holidays off of your jobs for Easter/Christmas? What is wrong with giving a loved one a gift on Christmas when I give gifts on other days as well.

I don't worship Esthra, or Mithra, I accept history teaching me my Lord's name. What makes me different from you? because I find my salvation in Yeshua? and not the Torah?

[James Pierce]

Evan,

You still not have provided evidence where the Torah becomes "unliteral."

Also, Who will the new covenant be made with?

Torah is included in the new covenant.... why do you exclude it?

Can you say with Paul in 1 corin 7:18-20 that keeping God's commandments is what counts?

How can one say they keep the law and then make statements of excuse why they don’t keep it all?

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Deu 27:26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amein.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

I am not sure who made this statement. All of the above scriptures are true, and I believe that YOU YOURSELF should take heed to the above scriptures and keep Torah. You are probably referring to the temple duties in the case of us doing "what applies."

Evan, I know you have common sense. If there is no temple, then how can we possibly carry out temple duties? We do what we can apply. This is no excuse.

Yeshua also taught to beware the leaven of the Pharisees–which was hypocrisy. That concept also needs to be applied to those claiming we need to keep the Torah when in fact they do not, nor can they.

Yeshuah never said they "couldn't" keep it. He said they command to keep it, but keep none of it themselves. Duet 30:11 says that Torah is not difficult to do, neither is it far away to achieve. In other words, TORAH IS NOT A BURDEN. Do you believe Yehwah's words here?

Bottom line you guys are falling short in keeping Torah, and YHWH knew we would be unable to keep it that is why HE sent Yeshua to be our sacrifice and example and that is why Yeshua sent back to us the power of Holy Ghost to lead and guide us.

Even us who are obedient to Torah, still fall short. This is not the point. The point is being obedient in your imperfections. You know this, Evan... you are just trying to reason up excuses on why you will not keep Torah. Yeshuah did not come to die because we could not keep Torah.. He came to die because we violate Torah. He came to become the curse of Torah.. that we may live forever with Him.

You are claiming that freedom comes without Torah, But Yehwah our father proves you wrong in Duet 28-30. I suggest you read that if you are indeed hungry for truth. Your freedom will only resort to lawlessness, and that my friend is what will send you to the lake of fire(Matt 7:21-23).

Shalom

[James Pierce]

Evan,

No one mandates them like they save us. We promote OBEDIENCE, just like our daddy! Yehwah never said His Torah's yoke is bondage. When the traditions of man overtake the interpretations of Torah, then the yoke becomes a burden. Yeshuah's yoke is easy, for Torah is to be a joy IN HIM.

You claim to find your salvation in Yeshuah, and yet you do not obey Him.. How is it that you are really saved?

[Evangelist Altha Fugett]

I confessed with my mouth that Yeshua lived, died, rose and ascended, and I accept HIM as my Lord and Savior.

I'm leaving the discussion now, Know that I leave it in love for you all and will continue in studying

[James Pierce]

Evan,

Merely accepting Him as savior does you no good, sis. You must walk in obedience, or Yeshuah will judge you by the Torah(Matt 7:21-23), and condemn you because you kept it not :(

[Evangelist Altha Fugett]

Yah's Niviim

The greatest commandment is "Is to love YHWH with all my heart, all my soul, and all my strength" and I DO

[Anna]

Sister:
"...by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, ' I know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a ' liar, and the truth is not in him. 'But ' whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God ' is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked." 1 John 2:3-6

When we say we love him and DON'T keep his commandments, what does that make us?