New Covenant Debate.............

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

There has arisen an issue concerning the details of the New Covenant that our LORD and Savior YESHUA/JESUS has won for us by HIS blood and grace. Therefore, we are opening this discussion and starting it off for the edifying of the saints and the settling of the matter:

The subjects for this debate are along two lines:

-Jeremiah 31:31 and Hebrews 8: Do we still stand on the Torah?
-the Seal of the New Covenant: Is it still Sabbaths, Feasts, and Circumcision, or do we have a New Seal?

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

And my GOD bless you and the HOLY SPIRIT show you that you don't have to be Jewish to be with JESUS!

:)

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

I agree. You do not have to be Jewish to be with Yeshuah. You just have to be OBEDIENT!

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Oh and by the way, here is your request for proof from the Gospels and from JESUS' mouth of what I've been talking about:

Your LORD and Savior said in Matthew 11:13 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John." John's time ended the old covenant and JESUS ushered in the beginning of the new covenant.

Just wanted to end this convo on a good note!

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

I have to open this one up. That scripture has nothing to do with the ending of the old covenant. In fact, that whole chapter has nothing to do with that. That chapter is referring to John the Baptist. It says the prophets and the law prophesied "until John". And then it says,"and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come." Its basically about a prophecy of the Elijah(John) who is to come. Thats no proof. sorry!

Shalom

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Yes it is, because the prophesy of Elijah coming was that he was to be the forerunner of the Messiah. The Messiah was to bring in a new age, therefore the forerunner was the last of the O.T. Prophets. The Gospels are the bridge between covenants. John the Baptist (an OT Prophet) spoke prophetically saying I must decrees so that HE may increase. Old things are gone, my friend. Come down from Mt. Sinai. You have compassed that mountain long enough, time to head forward.

You barely understand the Prophetic because you look at things like a Sadducee.

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

Its good that you realize that Yeshuah was not speaking of the Torah ;)

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

You STILL dont get it: that INCLUDED Levitical laws. That INCLUDES TORAH!

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

I'll end this Torah talk with you on this. The levitical priesthood does not make up all the Torah. You'll see when you REALLY get serious about studying His word.

Shalom

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

When a person gets serious about studying GOD's Word, they turn to the mind of CHRIST, and it is fully explain in the place you want to avoid: THE EPISTLES OF THE APOSTLES.

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

You already avoided Yeshuah. I rather avoid the Epistles & The Apostles, and cling to Yeshuah Messiah, then to cling to the Epistles & Apostles, and avoid Yeshuah. But, I embrace the Epistles & Apostles. The Epistles embrace the teachings of Yeshuah. If Yeshuah taught Torah, then you better believe the Epistles will be teaching it. Your heart is too hardened, and your eyes are too blinded to see that.

You are basing your Torahlessness on what the Epistles & The Apostles say, and you would not dare use Yeshuah BECAUSE YOU KNOW that Yeshuah is for Torah, lived it, and taught. If He did these things, then His Apostles would have done the same thing.

The Epistles & Apostles are inlined with the Torahness of the Gospels, and of course, the Tanakh. If you cannot use Yeshuah FIRST to defend your doctrine, then your foundation is built on quick sand. Trevor, brother, your foundation is crumbling, because your reliance is not on Yeshuah. Make Yeshuah your foundation for living, and teaching, because He lived by the Torah of His father. You do the same.

Shalom Aleichem

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Funny, I could have sworn that I used JESUS in my examples time after time after time. The Bible says in the Book of Hebrews that "the Word of GOD is quick and powerful and sharper than any two edged sword." I will use the New Testament in a "two edged sword manner" while you poke away with your old testament hunting knife:

1) I used the Gospels showing that John the Baptist said of JESUS "I (John, the representative of the O.T.) must decrease so that HE (the Mediator of the new covenant) may increase". When on the Mountain, James, Peter and John also saw Moses (the Mediator of the old covenant), Elijah (the witness of the Old covenant power) and JESUS () the new covenant Maker) stand conversing, but when Peter said lets make tabernacles (places of observances for all three doctrines) for all three, there was a great light shown and in the end, the only one left was JESUS, the maker of the new covenant. This showed that old things have passed away as spoken in Hebrews 8:13.

Need I go on from the Gospels? I easily can.....

2) I said that if JESUS was a good Teacher, then His disciples would literally represent Him in His absence. To listen to their doctrine is to listen to Him. To quote the Epistles is to quote the very mind of CHRIST. But you say "I rather avoid the Epistles & The Apostles, and cling to Yeshuah Messiah, then to cling to the Epistles & Apostles, and avoid Yeshuah" which is IMPOSSIBLE! If you believe that the Epistles back up your doctrine, then for the last time PROVE IT. If not, then ok, no shame in that, but again, DON'T SIT HERE AND LIE BEFORE GOD & MAN, GIVING EXCUSES AS TO WHY YOU CAN'T PROVE YOUR DOCTRINE.

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

No lie, im stating the facts. Its ok if you dont admit it. But, its pretty obvious that you are so quick to run to the Epistles to "try" to prove that we need not keep Torah. You cant do that with Yeshuah. Your excuse is that Yeshuah was under Torah. Well, so were the Apostles after the resurrection. Also, Torah is a decree ;).