Polygamy... Is it scriptural, or does Yah forbid such?

What speakest thou?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Chaplain Pat Harris on December 24, 2009 at 10:39pm

James,

therefore, this is valid: I think the point really is: If the individual man can handle it, or he cannot.

Again, this is your personal opinion of which you are entitled. I am not at all concerned with what any man can or cannot handle as it has no bearing on me.

Permalink Reply by Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene on December 24, 2009 at 11:55pm

Exodus 21:10-11 "If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money."

Deuteronomy 21:15-17 "If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated: Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn: But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his."

Interestingly enough, GOD spoke in the Torah regulating polygamy if that is the person's choice. The monogamy of the Roman Empire was the cause of two explanatory notes in the writings of Josephus describing how the polygamous marriages of Herod were permitted under Jewish custom. This is a matter of culture people. Just because you live within a country that teaches you that polygamy is evil, doesn't mean that polygamy is actually evil. If this were "lust" then GOD wouldn't have spoken in such a manner about the subject. You may be quick to say a man is lusting, but back it was the woman, particularly the first wife, that often presented the man with another wife, and it still is like that today in certain countries.

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Permalink Reply by Chaplain Pat Harris on December 25, 2009 at 8:52am

Thanks Trevor for the explanation.

I do understand and accept that polygamy was in fact cultural and God did in fact regulate that lifestyle to do what He knew was right for all parties involved.

My point with James was that God Himself, did not initially institute polygamy even though He did not forbid it. This is all I am saying. And in in saying this, I am not refuting the scriptures - I am simply stating a fact. If I am in error please advise and I will stand corrected.

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Permalink Reply by keith on December 25, 2009 at 10:26am

Your response just as all other polygamous believing individuals are based on misinterpretation of basic scripture. You look for loopholes in the law to justify iniquity. By your reasoning lesbianism is lawful as it is not specifically spoken of in the word. However we know that just as male same sex relations are transgressions so is woman same sex relations. For their is equivalence of the law for males and females.

Genesis 2:24 This is the Law of marriage. This is what it is. Please read:

Gen 2:24 KJV - Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

This is The Most High said about what a marriage is. Anything else violates his will and this law.

Leviticus 18:18 This is a direct statement against polygyny. So as not to confuse you and others as you turn through your bibles, I will provide an explanation from 1836. Your arguments are not knew. Please read:

Lev 18:18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex [her], to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life [time].

This is the traditional reading. However the correct reading is:

Lev 18:18 And a woman unto another thou dost not take, to be an adversary, to uncover her nakedness beside her, in her life.

Why is this correct as opposed to the traditional rendering? The phrase one to another is an idiom. This phrase is used 35 times in our bible. In every other case it is rendered one to another (GE 13:11, 26:31, 37:19, Jer 13:14, Ex. 20:10:23, 16:15, Lev 7:10) But why is Lev 18:18 rendered differently. I suspect people wished to do as they desired and read it as sister instead of other woman.

"but the Torah does not say this" Yes it does. The Essenes (Dead Sea Sect) extinct since 100 CE copied and recopied the Torah from documents dating bact to second temple period or earlier. The copies recovered date from 300 BCE to 100 BCE. This is 1000 years older than the accepted Masoretic text (compiled approx 900 CE). As a matter of fact, in their Halakhic letter to the Sadducees ( the sadduceees were in charge of all temple worship during that time) detailing why they (the Dead Sea sect) left the temple polygamy is a major reason of the 22 reasons they gave. Please read Reclaiming the Dead Sea Scrolls by Lawrence H. Schiffman.

Polygamous believers, please remove your personal feelings from this discussion and open your heart. I would even argue that polygamy violates Lev 19: 17-18 and Matt 22:39. Why would I say this? What man would accept sharing his wife with another man? None. If you would not wish to share your wife with another man why should your wife accept you spending time with another women, whatever you called her. I am using you as a general term and am not applying it to anyone on this site.

There you have your prohibitions against polygyny, polygamy:
Ge 2:24 as stated by The Most High directly and
Lev 18:18 once you use the correct hebrew interpretation

But why would The Father legislate polygamous relations?

Ex 21: 7-11
Deut 21: 15-17
2 Sam12: 7-8
Levirate marriage

Read this with an open heart, remove your personal desires and feelings and preconceptions.

Ex 21 7-11
This is describing a man who purchases a woman to be his wife or his sons wife. Read( I will add some following verses as well)

Exd 21:7 KJV - And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.

Exd 21:8 KJV - If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.

Exd 21:9 KJV - And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters.

Exd 21:10 KJV - If he take him another [wife]; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.

Exd 21:11 KJV - And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money.

Ok show me where the man married this slave woman. He did not marry her (If she please not her master). If his son does not marry her how is she to be treated, as a daughter (Exd 21:9 KJV - And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters). Ok Ok but what about Ex 21:10, specifically duty of marriage. The correct rendering is ( as strange as it sounds) OIL. Please read S. M. Paul "Exodus 21:10 A threefold Maintenance Clause" Journal of near eastern studies 28 (1969): 48-53. Also why would you wish to have conjugal relations with a woman that does not please you? (Ex 21: 8). Also where will this woman that displeases you sleep? In the back yard? In the street? Or wherever she can find a spot in the town?

This is regulating what to fo with a slave woman when the master does not live up to his end of the bargain or purchase agreement.

Deut 21: 15-17
Please read S. E. Dwight "The Hebrew Wife" pages 20-22.

Here again this verse is not saying take two wives then do not mistreat the children of your first wife because you do not like her.

The verse:Deu 21:15 KJV - If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, [both] the beloved and the hated; and [if] the firstborn son be hers that was hated:

Deu 21:16 KJV - Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit [that] which he hath, [that] he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, [which is indeed] the firstborn:

Deu 21:17 KJV - But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated [for] the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he [is] the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn [is] his.

The correct reading is If a man has had two wives. Also where is the statement by The Father, when you take two wives do not mistreat ....) If you say he is legislating polygamy, The Father also legislated harlotry. Now is harlotry permitted? No. See Deut 23:17-18 (especially 18- harlotry is regulated, so its ok right?)

I know thius is difficult for some to believe as they have been tainted by middle eastern and african culture. The bible is not a middle eastern or any other culture. It is The Most High's culture. He defined marriage in Ge 2:24. Do not deviate. Just as the sabbath was ordained in Ge 2:1-3.

Let me add this so I won't make a mistake and delete it.

END
I do not wish to offend.

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Permalink Reply by Chaplain Pat Harris on December 25, 2009 at 11:36am

Keith:

Your response just as all other polygamous believing individuals are based on misinterpretation of basic scripture. You look for loopholes in the law to justify iniquity.

I do not wish to offend.

I do take offense of your false accusation of me as a polygamous believer and assuming that I am looking for loopholes in the law to justify iniquity.

Nowhere in my comments did I ever say that I believed in polygamy, much less looking for any loopholes.

It was pointed out to me that God did not state specifically that He forbids polygamy. And since I could not find any scripture that says otherwise, I accepted it as a matter of fact. This does not mean that I personally accept polygamy as being morally right. I also pointed out that this lifestyle was instituted by man, not by God because if it had been so, He would have given Adam multiple wives.