Should a Pastor, Pastor a Church for free

[Pastor Lorenzo Edwards]

Should a pastor that spends most of his time preaching and teaching get paid for what God has him to do? I know what the scriptures says about this, but would you pastor for free?

[N'ZI Amani Germain]

Dear brother Trevor!

My Message above is very clear.

The truth needs no support.

You said:

"...the office of Apostle is not just spiritual, but literally governmental"

Can you provide a biblical verse to support this new concept "governmental office" ?

A ministry which is both "governmental" and "spiritual". What does it mean? What do you mean by that?

It's the first time I meet such a philosophic concept!

Bro. Germain

www.tagworld.com/srobouay
www.myspace.com/wawesan

[John]

Everyone (ok not everyone..lol) get confused on government mentioned in the bible meaning an earthly government by man and that's just not the case. I need some bible verses on this one myself though I don't think there are any.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Clearly there is a lack of understanding of the ministry and the origin of the office of the Apostle. The term Apostolos was NOT started in the church. It is literally a Greco-roman terminology for an envoy in the Roman government. The term "sent one" does not do justice to its position. He was the equivalent to an Ambassador/Admiral of a Naval fleet in today's understanding and comparison. This means that he not only came with governmental authority of an Ambassador, but also the military might of the Roman legion. The signet ring on his hand was given to him by the Emperor himself. This is why one of the requirements to be an Apostle was to "see the risen LORD" Emperor JESUS. Apostle JESUS came with the signet ring and authority given Him by GOD the FATHER. This is just part of the responsibilities of an Apostle in governmental order.

The first examples of the Apostle is found in the OT:
-Adam
-Joseph
-Moses
-King David
-Joshua
-Abraham
-Noah
ect....

John, you asked for a scripture referring to the governmental authority of an Apostle:

-Matthew 19:28
-Revelation 20:4
-Luke 22:28
-Acts 15

A key word here is 'throne'. The word ‘throne’ is derived from the Greek word ‘Thronos’ and the Syriac equivalent is ‘kursyo’. In Hebrew it is ‘kisse’. The word primarily means ‘the seat of authority of a king or a prince or a judge. Both in Old Testament and in New Testament the word throne is referred to the seat of authority (cf. 1 kings 22:19; Issah 6:1; Sam 4:1-13 etc.). In Revelation 4:2 we see a throne in heaven which is the seat of God and in 4:4 we see twenty four other thrones set around the throne of God. 24 elders were seated on the 24 thrones (4:4), clad in white garments and with a golden crown on the head of each. The tradition of the Church says that the 24 elders are the 12 tribal patriarchs of the Old Testament and the 12 Apostles of the New Testament (Rev. 11:6). Thus by the word ‘throne’ it means the ‘authority proceeds from God bestowed up on disciples.

[N'ZI Amani Germain]

Brother Trevor,

I thank you for you demonstration in which you show that "...the office of Apostle is not just spiritual, but literally governmental"

However, you've not answered my question yet!

What do you really mean by that?

What relationship the throne and the authority God bestowed up on disciples have with the money?

Bro. Germain

[John]

Brother Trevor thanks for you answer but I have to somewhat disagree. Are Apostle and Prophet the same? Were those mean you mentioned Apostles? Was Adam any of those? Was David a King or an Apostle or Prophet? Was Joseph either one? It's a given that Abraham, Moses and Joshua were Prophets of God but I don't believe they were Apostles. The Apostles were ordained as such from Jesus. Now I really don't understand why you say Jesus was an Apostle when he was so much greater than any of these.

Your bible verses you showed have nothing to do with governement and thrones on earth and thrones in heaven are two different things Brother. Jesus has a spiritual government through God and it is man that has an earthly government not God. God never wanted man to have a man made government but man is who he is and has tried that since Cain and Nimrod to have his own instead of being under God's. So now if one of the requirements was for an Apostle to see the risen Christ why do people today call them selves Apostles? Have they seen the risen Christ, I would think not since He is the ascended Christ now sitting on the right hand of God. Paul didn't see the risen Christ (meaning before he ascended). I know Paul and John saw the ascended Christ. Paul on the road to Damascus and John (though he also saw the risen Christ) when he was taken up to be shown the vision by Christ in Revelations. You also provided me information pertaining to Roman military stuff, what has that to do with God's government? I do agree man has his earthly government but that belongs to man. Do you really feel that if this earthly government belonged to God it would be in the mess it is in? I've been trying to find out who those twenty four elders are an can't find it and won't go by church tradition unless that tradition is of God. I do know that the 12 Apostles that Jesus commissioned will be over the 12 tribes that is clear but don't know if they are part of the 24 elders mentioned. I dont' even know if the 12 Patriarchs are part of them since they didn't do such a good job being over their people. I just don't know. But thank you for your answer Brother Trevor it is much appreciated. God bless.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Hebrews 3:1 states that HE is an Apostle because HE seen and proclaimed GOD, His GOD, before all men. An Apostle has to see GOD (which just so happens to be JESUS).

If I get any deeper than this, I will be here another day typing!

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

So you do NOT believe that JESUS is GOD?

[Adrian Lamar West Sr.]

NOPE

[Pastor Trevor Ducreay]

Consider this: (1)After asserting that the Lord "ordained" that preachers should "live off the Gospel" Paul touted his pride in not accepting what God had ordained.
(2) While I do not think the Pauline intention is in dispute (to wit that full time preachers of the Gospel should be compensated), if we let not just Paul's precept but example speak to us what we have is the novel idea that preacher's should exercise the same faith in the Lord's provision that they preach to their congregants. Those who preach the Gospel that God can provide should be examples of the Lord's provisioning.

[John]

Brother Ducreay please explain your take on Paul touted his pride in not accepting what God had ordained. Where in scripture do you find this? I just don't see anyplace after his communication with Jesus on the road to Damascus where Paul let his pride get in his way and especially not accepting what God had ordainded to him. Is this in your belief that God was providing Paul money and he turned it down? Thanks.

[Pastor Trevor Ducreay]

By "pride" I don't mean negative harmful pride. But Paul boasts (he uses that word) that he worked with his hands and did not depend on the churches after stating that God ordained that he be paid for his preaching work..

In other words not only must we correctly exegete the prophet's (I am using that term in its broadest Biblical sense) words but we must also discover how their practice informs their understanding and therefore ours of what they wrote.

Hope this clears it up my brother. God bless you.

[John]

It does and thanks so much. My only other question is where in scripture are you seeing that he was ordained by God to be paid for his preaching and if so was it money? Brother I just search for His truths as we all do. Thanks in advance Brother Ducreay. May God continue to bless you.