When I say traditions of the OT, thats JUST what I mean-past traditions. Things like Sabbath Feasts, drink offerings, wave offerings, and the like no longer hold effect in the new covenant. This also includes how you dealt with the Levites and Priests of the Temple. You say you made no mention of any practices, but you speak of how the Priests were to be taken care of. I only mentioned them in OT to 1) reference OT scripture to confirm NT establishments, and 2) quote them because you are quicker to hear and site OT than NT. Yes the Word of GOD is truth and does not change. However, what truth are we standing on concerning this subject? The truth of salvation? The truth of the existence of a Temple? or the truth of how to deal with GOD's servants concerning hire? If you think your GOD's mind is so one-dimensional as ours is, then there is much that needs to be looked at here.
You said : "The Bible described the position of pastors and deacons and every other office. All of those offices are in the Torah. It is just that the New Testament translates them to Greek. For instance, the bishops are the elders of the congregation. Paul did not “reorganize” the Church. He changed nothing."
OK then, describe for all to see the position of Pastor (Shepherd) in O.T. literature, and show exactly how they are to be compensated. If you want to cover it by saying they are the Shepherds, then look at the relationship between Shepherd and flock:
-Sheep were kept for their milk, meat and especially their wool.
-It was Jacob that had Joseph tell the Egyptian Pharaoh that they were Shepherds by trade, so shepherding IS a full time job.
-Unlike farmers, shepherds were often wage earners, being paid to watch the sheep of others.
You obviously do not under who you are speaking to. When it comes to Ephesians 4:11 ministry offices, I am an Apostle/Prophet in the LORD's Church, so I understand very well that all five must be operating in GOD's Church (take note, I didn't even mention the Apostle's right to receive wages, I'm just mentioning the Pastor). Not every Church will have all of these offices (Apostles and Prophets in particular), but all Churches should respect and understand the offices and be ready to receive the Word of GOD from their mouths, and take care of them when they come to minister (Matthew 10:1-15). The Levites may have had jobs other than ministry, but GOD Himself said "YWHW is their inheritance" and their main job focus was MINISTRY, and for some, it was their ONLY focus.
So again, they are not to rob the people, but they ARE entitled to their wages, for this is their call and their RIGHT.
I certainly agree. I have had one tell me I am out of order and I should let him be my covering as well as tithe to him. So the ? I have is this If the Pastor isnt/shoudlnt get paid why should the covering
Yes a pastor should pastor for free. Because there not a salary set in the Bible for pastor.
But i believe that for the sacrifice he make of his time, christians shlould help him in his daily life in what concerns his need (finacial, foods and any other thing) .
There wasn't a set amount of the tithes and offerings in the Bible either, just a percentage (10%). One must fully understand the responsibility and privileges of a leader of a Church in order to determine the amount they receive from the people.
This is never going to stop because of those that have made the fellowship of Christ a BUSINESS! Christianity started in Palestine as a fellowship; it moved to Greece and became a philosophy; it moved to Italy and became an institution; it moved to Europe and became a culture; it came to America and became an enterprise/business. Now true Christianity is suppose to be a BODY, I'm sure we all would agree, so then when a BODY becomes a BUSINESS, that becomes a PROSTITUTE! The American Church, tragically, is heavily populated by people who do not love God. How can we love Him? We don’t even know Him; and I mean really know Him. We just always ask for stuff, His stuff. We call on Him when we want/need something! Pay me for teaching/spreading your Word. My question (and final question and final response to this never ending topic) is this. If God stopped paying you that feel you should be paid, would you continue to spread His Word of find something else to do so you can get paid? We really need to pay attention to Matthew 7:21 - 23 and believe this with all our hearts. God bless.
If GOD stopped paying me for what HE has called me to do, the first thing I would check is to see if I did something wrong. Its not in GOD's character to do such without a reason/lesson behind it. Even when HE commanded someone to do something for what seemed to be for free, HE always compensated for their sacrifice.
I can do anything for GOD without HIM paying me, because I was saved in a place where provision was little: prison. It was even in prison that I learned such from the very mouth of CHRIST Himself. This is why I hold to what I say. I know how to abase, and to abound, for I can do all things through CHRIST which strengthens me. I take comfort in the fact that GOD takes pleasure in the prosperity of HIS people, and even searches out across the world whom HE may bless.
All obedience and sacrifice is blessed by GOD. It was JESUS that said that one can expect back 100% from an investment and sacrifice for the Gospel (Mark 10: 29-30), so why should I not take Him at His word? If He doesn't make good on that word, then why should I respect anything else HE says? I feel this way on EVERY subject, from salvation on down, because its His name on the line. He lies once, and HE literally will have to forfeit the throne.
This is a ver interesing topic and I would like to comment.
Paul was talking to the church of Corinth in chapter 9 about the rights of the Apostles
Contemporary English Version
8-9 I AM NOT SAYING THIS ON MY OWN ATHOURITY. THE LAW OF MOSES TELLS US NOT TO MUZZLE AN OX WHEN IT IS GRINDING GRAIN. BUT WAS GOD CONCERNED ONLY ABOUT AN OX?
10 NO, HE WASN'T HE WAS TALKING ABOUT US. THIS WAS WRITTEN IN THE SCRIPTURES SO THAT ALL WHO PLOW AND ALL WHO GRAIN THE GRAIN WILL LOOK FORWARD TO SHARING IN THE HARVEST.
11. WHEN WE TOLD THE MESSAGE TO YOU, IT WAS LIKE PLANTING SPIRTUAL SEED. SO WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO ACCEPT MATERIAL THINGS AS OUR HARVEST FROM YOU.
Take a look at this verse!!
12. IF OTHERS HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO THIS, WE HAVE AN EVEN GREATER RIGHT. BUT WE HAVEN'T USED THIS RIGHT OF OURS. WE ARE WILLING TO PUT UP WITH ANYTHING TO KEEP FROM CAUSING TROUBLE FOR THE MESSAGE ABOUT CHRIST.
13. DON'T YOU KNOW THAT PEOPLE WHO WORK IN THE TEMPLE MAKE THEIR LIVING FROM WHAT IS BROUGHT TO THE TEMPLE? DON'T YOU KNOW THAT A PERSON WHO SERVS AT THE ALTAR IS GIVEN PART OF WHAT IS OFFERED?
14. IN THE SAME WAY THE LORD WANTS EVERYONE WHO PREACHES THE GOOD NEWS TO MAKE A LIVING FROM PREACHING THIS MESSAGE.
Take a look at this verse
15. BUT I HAVE NEVER USED THESE PRIVILEGES OF MINE, AND I AM NOT WRITING TO START NOW. I WOULD RATHER DIE THAN HAVE SOMEONE ROB ME OF THE RIGHT TO TAKE PRIDE IN THIS.
16. I DON'T HAVE ANY REASON TO BRAG ABOUT PREACHING THE GOOD NEWS. PREACHING IS SOMETHING GOD TOLD ME TO DO, AND IF I DON'T I'M DOOMED.
17. IF I PREACH BECAUSE I WANT TO, I WILL BE PAID. BUT EVEN IF I DON'T WANT TO, IT IS STILL SOMETHING GOD HAS SENT ME TO DO.
Take a look at this verse
18. WHAT PAY AM I GIVEN? IT IS THE CHANCE TO PREACH THE GOOD NEWS FREE OF CHARGE AND NOT TO USE THE PRIVILEGES THAT ARE MINE BECAUSE I AM A PREACHER.
19. I AM NOT ANYONE'S SLAVE. BUT I HAVE BECOME A SLAVE TO EVERYONE, SO THAT I CAN WIN AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE.
PAUL WAS SAYING THAT HE CHOOSES NOT TO GET PAID TO PREACH THE GOOD NEWS EVEN THOUGH HE KNOWS THAT HE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO. SOME PEOPLE ABUSE THIS PRIVILEGE. TO KEEP FROM CAUSING TROUBLE FOR THE MESSAGE ABOUT CHRIST HE DID NOT USE HIS PRIVILEGES AND ESPECIALLY NOT BECUASE HE WAS A PREACHER. PAUL EXPLAIN THAT HE CAME TO SERVE AS GOD COMMANDED HIM NOT TO BE SERVED. VERSE 19
IT'S YOUR CHOICE TO TAKE MONEY FOR THE WORD OF GOD FOR IT CLEARLY STATES THAT YOU CAN, THAT'S BETWEEN YOU AND GOD
PREACH I SAID!!!!!!!!!! You speakin the truth here! "Pastoring & Preaching aint the same." The problem is that many here are thinking that we want a check for hoopin (I don't even hoop!!), but this is far from the case.