The connection line.

[RevZ62]

The rollercoaster of life, the daily ups and downs that test faith and when you pass the test you grow.
People talk of being closer to God, I can't get any closer but my faith can strengthen,
Matt, 8, Mark 4, Luke 8
O ye of little faith
Why is it you have no faith
How is it you have no faith.

What is the core of your belief? How do you connect with God/Jesus/Holy Ghost, faith is the connection line.

[newview]

Starting in January, I will be attending a weekly class at one of the local synagogues to learn how to read and write in Hebrew. This will definitely be huge challenge for me but nevertheless, I am excited about it.

Not worry, I will not be coming back claiming to be Jewish or Israelite. :-)

Heehee :-)

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

Trevor,

James, you're a Torah keeping fanatic. You would be so happy to just do away with the NT epistles, and just run with the five books of Moses wouldn't you? Tell me, do you regard the Law of Moses higher than the revelations and testimonies of the Apostles?

I couldn't agree with you more. James and Hezekiah, along with a few others are all Torah keeping fanatics. They would be happy to do away with the remaining 61 books of the Bible.

As for the revelations and testimonies of the Apostles - this is Greek to them for they have no revelation, no personal relationship with the Lord and therefore, no testimonies. They have the mindset of a typical Pharisee.

Matthew 7:21-23 . . .Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

That is not true what you are saying Sister Harris because I quote out of the NT for you all the time. You all reject that as well. I know you know these scriptures.

Romans 3:31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

These are scripts in the NT saying keep the Torah.

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

@ Hezekiah,

Your response with the NT scriptures proves my point. You will pull these specific scriptures out of context to argue your point in keeping the Torah. You disregard everything else in the NT. For example, Romans 10:9, 10 & 13 . . .what say ye?

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

How are they out of context?

The Romans scripture you put down is true, but you don't understand what is being said. All of that is true, but that is the beginning. You call upon the name of the Lord, and he will send the Holy spirit, and the Holy spirit will teach you knowledge of the Lord. The knowledge of the Lord is Fear, and the beginning of fear is the keeping of the commandments.

What is sin? If you can answer me that, then I can understand why you put down Romans 10.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Romans 4 "What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb: He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; and being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; but for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; who was delivered for our offenses, and was raised again for our justification."

Romans 7:1-12 "Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

Wow. This is great Brother Trevor. Yes sir. I agree 110%. Great Post.

[RevZ62]

When pulled out of context they say keep the Torah. In context that is not what is meant.

Do not attempt to place your thoughts in the text let the text guide your thoughts. Pulling out words and sentences that seem to say what you want and you think prove your point is a misuse of the message.

Put the verses back in context and read the whole pericope, read the whole chapter and note the intent of the entire document and the original intended audience, Jewish law was never promoted.
You are modern day Judizers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaizers
Judaizers refers to those who claim the necessity of obedience to the Torah Laws by Christians, which is normally considered a requisite only for the followers of Judaism.
Similarly, "one who has Judaized" refers to a Christian who has accepted the necessity of adhering to the Torah Laws,

Adherence by Gentile Christians to the Torah Laws originally given to the Israelites (i.e. the 613 Laws given to Israel at Sinai). That Gentile Christians should convert to Judaism and obey the Laws of Moses was the assumption of some in the Early Church, represented by Pharisees who had become believers in Acts 15 (Acts 15:5).

Adherence by Gentile Christians to Torah Laws intended for Gentiles. The "three exceptions" resolved by the Council of Acts 15 indicate that the apostles accepted that those portions of the Law of Moses (the Torah) intended for Gentiles (later known as the Laws of Noah) would apply to Gentile Christians. Extra-Biblical evidence shows that, at least in some areas (especially in the East), this included observances beyond the three exceptions, such as a Christianized form of Passover, Day of Atonement, and Sabbath. But other Gentile Christian communities (especially in the West), evolved in an increasingly anti-Jewish direction that interpreted Paul's teaching to mean that all Torah Laws are redundant "now that Salvation by Faith is available through Jesus' atoning death".

There is some food for thought for Hezekiah and his group.

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

Talk about taking scripture out of context. This is a classic example of it. If you read the whole chapter, you can see there are referring to the animal sacrifice law, tht's if you even knew anything about the animal sacrifice law, and the customs of the sacrifice, you would be able to understand that. Paul has a poetic style about his teachings, but if you knew the customs of the people at the time of those customs you could understand the Bible better.

Acts 15:5But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. When you quoted this because you took this out of context, and out of the time of writting. They sacrificed animals in Israel in that time, and when the people Paul were ministering to were not keeping animal sacrifice law, they Phairasses sought to have them killed because it was Israelite law at the time, that if you did not do animal sacrifice, you were convicted a sinner, and would be stoned to death.

Is this out of context?

Romans 6:1-15 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

1John 3:4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 3:29-31 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

This for RevZ62, and his group

[RevZ62]

Oh, Hezze, you try so hard.
Me and my group, Christians, followers of Jesus thank you.
You keep me busy but I wish you would find a new subject. The gospel record is about Christ, and how to be a Christian. Gnostics, Judizers and others can find no solace here. It promotes faith and not works.

Now to your points:

Luke was not upholding Jewish tradition, he was not a Judizer.
And yes you took the verse out of context, the whole pericope is not about the law in terms of being a Jew...

2 [1-5] When some of the converted Pharisees of Jerusalem discover the results of the first missionary journey of Paul, they urge that the Gentiles be taught to follow the Mosaic law. Recognizing the authority of the Jerusalem church, Paul and Barnabas go there to settle the question of whether Gentiles can embrace a form of Christianity that does not include this obligation. (http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/acts/acts15.htm)

1
1 Some who had come down from Judea were instructing the brothers, "Unless you are circumcised according to the Mosaic practice, you cannot be saved." 2
2
Because there arose no little dissension and debate by Paul and Barnabas with them, it was decided that Paul, Barnabas, and some of the others should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and presbyters about this question.
3
They were sent on their journey by the church, and passed through Phoenicia and Samaria telling of the conversion of the Gentiles, and brought great joy to all the brothers.
4
When they arrived in Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church, as well as by the apostles and the presbyters, and they reported what God had done with them.
5
But some from the party of the Pharisees who had become believers stood up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and direct them to observe the Mosaic law."
6
3 The apostles and the presbyters met together to see about this matter.
7
4 After much debate had taken place, Peter got up and said to them, "My brothers, you are well aware that from early days God made his choice among you that through my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.
8
And God, who knows the heart, bore witness by granting them the holy Spirit just as he did us.
9
He made no distinction between us and them, for by faith he purified their hearts.
10
Why, then, are you now putting God to the test by placing on the shoulders of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear?

I would say that verse seven make it cleat what is being discussed.

---------------------

1John 3:4 How that reads depends on the translation.

1Jn 3:4 Every one that doeth sin doeth also lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. -ASV
1Jn 3:4 Everyone who is a sinner goes against the law, for sin is going against the law. -BBE
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin committeth also iniquity. And sin is iniquity. -DRB
1Jn 3:4 Everyone who keeps living in sin also practices disobedience. In fact, sin is disobedience. -ISV
1Jn 3:4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness, for sin is lawlessness.MKJV

Lawlessness, Disobedience, Law,

1Jn 3:4 WhosoeverG3956 committethG4160 sinG266 transgresseth also the law:G4160 G2532 G458 forG2532 sinG266 isG2076 theG3588 transgression of the law.G458 KJV/STRONG

here a word is not translated but a phrase, it is not a word for word translation.

That happens between languages. It is a crack up watching an American movie in Spanish.
Some words and thoughts do not translate, you can only come close. Turn on your close caption and watch a movie you know well, I like Bad Boys II, I know many of the line of Will Smith and Martin Lawrence, the Spanish is a hoot.

Study requires more than reading the KJV, much more. I have a family bible over a century old and it is not exactly the same as my current KJV, it is just a few words but as translations improve the publishers update. When I prepare sermons I have ten to twelve bible I consult as well as commentaries and now with online other sources.

Context is more than what has been rendered in English it is also the sitz em lieben, the situation in life of the intended audience.The situations in Exodus are far different than Judges, and way different than Samuel and Kings, then we have the captivity in Babylon and the intertestamental times and the times of Jesus.

Each context of the writer and the people changes what we read and alters in some respect references used.

--------------------

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

I did pull this verse because it speaks directly to the misconception you have.

The law of sin and death is the Jewish law.

The epistile to the Hebrews in Rome is hard to break up.

I stopped at chapter 9 and you began at chapter 3, the whole epistle is a refutation of the Jewish practice of living by the law.

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Rom 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
Rom 2:18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
Rom 2:19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
Rom 2:20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

This epistle is the wrong place to go to think it backs up anything having to do with Jewish tradition, it is just the opposite.

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

Rev z62 said: Context is more than what has been rendered in English it is also the sitz em lieben, the situation in life of the intended audience. This statement contradicts this scripture.

2Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

This post contradict these scriptures

1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

John 14:14-15 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

[RevZ62]

As it is said in a courtroom, "Asked and answered"

This horse is dead, quit beating it.

I respond because 1. Others may read and I do want them to be mislead
2 That you may see a different point of view.
3 In the hope you might generate some serious dialogue and not just print verse that say nothing, oh, I know they do to you, not to me.
You keep pulling verses out of context in an attempt to make them fit in to what???
Nothing in the NT supports Judaism why do keep trying to insist it does?