The Deity Of Jesus Debate.... Who Is This Jesus?

[James Pierce]

Lets discuss....

[Della Morton]

James, Some of the most powerful proof of Christs deity is in this Article.
In Revelations Chapter 1:
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is TO COME; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Comment:

Notice the greeting here in verses 4 and 5. From the Father first then the Son. But notice the Father is the one who was and is and IS TO COME. So the Spirit signifies here that the Father is coming but in verse 5 the Son is not.

7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Comment:

Verse 7 the one who is coming is the one who WAS PIERCED!
Verse 4 has established it is the Father who is TO COME. I thought Jesus is the one who was pierced?

33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
34 But one of the soldiers with a spear PIERCED his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. John 19:33-34

Yet what about THIS prophecy?

8 In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them.
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon ME whom they have PIERCED, and they shall mourn for HIM, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him as one that is in bitterness for his ONLY SON. Zech. 12:8-10


God is the one speaking in verse 10. Quite unusual when he says "They will look on ME who they pierced" and in the same sentence says "and they will mourn for HIM as one mourns for his ONLY SON."

As if he were another person at the SAME TIME.

Now verse 8 (back in Rev. 1) says the ALMIGHTY is the one to come. He is Alpha and Omega. He is THE LORD.

Well verse 4 said the Father is the one coming. So the Alpha Omega is the Father. He is THE LORD.

How many Lords did Paul say there are?

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 1 Cor. 8:6

One God and one Lord.

And John says the Alpha Omega is the Almighty and the LORD.

The Lord is Jesus according to Paul. The Alpha Omega is the Father who is TO COME. The Lord (Jesus) is the Alpha Omega.

9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia.

Comment:

The Spirit is yet further piecing this divine puzzle together. Verse 11 reveals that the same one who is Alpha Omega is the First and the Last!

The Father is the one to COME in verse 4.

The one to COME is Alpha Omega in verse 8.

Therefore the Alpha Omega is the Father.

The Alpha Omega (Father) is also the First and Last verse 11.

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Comment:

Now John sees one who he believes is Jesus.

Jesus says "I am the First and the Last". Verse 17

If he is the First and the Last he is the Alpha Omega. If he is the Alpha Omega he is the ONE to come. Verse 8.

If he is the ONE to come he is THE FATHER of verse 4.

Jesus is the one who was dead and came alive in verse 18. The Son who washed us in his blood. Verse 5.

So between verse 17-18 we can say with much assurance Jesus is BOTH the First and Last (Father) and ALSO the Son who died and rose.

Written in a veiled way? Maybe thats why the book is also referred to as THE UNVEILING OF JESUS CHRIST!

If Jesus is both Father and Son it is vindicated that he is the Messiah prophesied in Isaiah 9:6

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, the everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

The Real Christ.LOVE IN CHRIST DELLA MORTON

[Della Morton]

To All READERS:

If You believe in One God and we know that God is a spirit.The Apostle Paul said to the Corinthians:

13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Cor. 13-17

The Lord is that Spirit. verse 17

Now who was the Lord to Paul?

3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. Acts 9:3-5

Paul asked the Lord who he was. The Lord said I am Jesus. So Jesus is the Lord.

The same Paul said the Lord is that Spirit. What Spirit was Paul talking about? The context of Chapter 3 allows only one answer. The Spirit he speaks of is in verse 3.

3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 2 Cor. 3:3

The Lord Jesus is the SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD!

Therefore if the Living God is God the Father Jesus is God the Father. For HE is the Spirit of the Living God.

If the Spirit of the Living God is the Holy Spirit then Jesus IS THE HOLY SPIRIT. For THE LORD IS THAT SPIRIT.

The entrance of his words give light. Allow it to shine on you.

There is ONLY ONE Spirit who is God. Not two or three.

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 1 Cor. 12:11

God is calling many to a change of theology. LOVE IN CHRIST DELLA MORTON

[Della Morton]

Let us reason the deity of Jesus from another angle. That is the doctrine of one Lord as presented in the New Testament.

We see this in particularly two places.

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 1 Cor.8:6

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Eph. 4:5-6

The Greek word for Lord in both passages is "kurios" meaning according to Youngs Concordance sir, or master.

The Greek word for God in both passages is "Theos" meaning according to Youngs concordance God,a god, object of worship.

In these two portions of scripture many people see a very clear cut separation between God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. They say it proves that Jesus is not God the Father himself.

Friends would you agree with me as I agree with the apostle Paul there is only ONE God the father? And would you agree with me as I agree with the apostle Paul there is only ONE Lord (Jesus) to us the believer? Good.

So for those who reject the docrine of "I and my Father are one" try this on for size!

Revelation 19
1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

Get the point?

The Lord (Jesus)is OUR GOD!

We have seen there is ONLY ONE LORD. We know that is Jesus.

We know there is ONLY ONE GOD and that is the Father.

Yet now we see in Rev. 19:1 that the LORD is OUR GOD!

If Jesus (the Lord) is our God then he is God the Father for we see in the same 2 verses 1 Cor. 8:6 and Eph. 4:6 that the One God is the Father.

So it is a strong possibility that 1 Cor. 8:6 should be read like this:

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; EVEN one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

See the difference? Instead of having us focus of God the Father and Jesus as TWO it points us to believe they are ONE.

Are we actually to see the Lord and God as 2 very much separate beings? While there is a definite truth that a distinction exists between the deity and humanity of Jesus I believe the scripture ALSO upholds the truth that the Lord and God are ONE.

Notice:

29: And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. Mark 12:29-30

So if Jesus HIMSELF connects whoever the Lord is with being God why would Paul in 1 Cor. 8:6 go out of his way to SEPARATE the Lord from BEING God?

So in this light it is most probable that Paul is using the Greek word "kai" for EVEN rather than for "and".

Not attempting to separate the Lord and God but to connect them together!


Friends would you agree with me as I agree with the apostle Paul there is only ONE God the Father? And would you agree with me as I agree with the apostle Paul there is only ONE Lord (Jesus) to us the believer?

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 1 Cor.8:6

The Lord is Jesus.
God is the Father.

27: Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28: And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. John 20:27-28

Jesus was the Lord of Thomas yet Jesus was also the God of Thomas!

If there is only one God and that is the Father as 1 Cor. 8:6 declares this should open our eyes!

If Jesus is Lord and God he must of necessity be God the Father. Paul says there is only one who is God, that is the Father.


Again the issue is if there is only ONE LORD to the New Testament Assembly then he is ALSO the one who is God the Father.

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 1 Cor.8:6

My assertion is that the second time the word AND appears it should be taken to mean EVEN.

The Greek word is the same for either. If it be taken as "and" it can be misconstrued to mean Paul is attemting to present The Lord as being separate from God, the Father. If taken as "even" it is simply identifying the one who is God as the Lord Jesus Christ.

Does it mean anything when Paul says there is only one Lord to us?

If so it opens up interesting possibilities.

8: I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Rev. 1:8

Paul said the one Lord is Jesus.

The one Lord (Jesus) claims in Revelation 1:8 he is:

Alpha Omega
Beginning and End
The One who was and is and is to come
The Almighty

Oh friends if THIS IS JESUS how could he not be the ONE who is God the Father!

Now lets go here.

8: And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
9: And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
10: The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
11: Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.


In verse8 the heavenly beings are worshipping the one they recognize as the Lord God Almighty.

Paul said in 1 Cor. 8:6 there is only ONE GOD, the Father. So this must be HIM.

The heavenly beings then in verse 11 call the same one on the throne LORD.

Paul said only one is Lord and that is Jesus!

So evidently the same one in verse 8 who is the Lord God Almighty is the one who in verse 11 is Jesus.

Can you see? The one on the throne is Jesus. He is the Lord God Almighty. Verse 8 also supplies the info that he is the one who was, and is, and is to come!

We are able to understand this wonderful truth with the right understanding of 1 Cor. 8:6.

The doctrine of one Lord is as important as the doctrine of one God. In a way it is easier to see it from this viewpoint than the one God doctrine. Although when the dust settles it is really the same doctrine is it not?

[Della Morton]

WHO IS GOD?

Who is the true God of the Bible?



There is only One God of whom the Bible speaks about but the question is who is this God?

Deuteronomy 6:4 (KJV) Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

This is the Shema, and one has to remember that Jews were STRICT Monotheists

Malachi 2:10 (KJV) Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

Isaiah 43:11 (KJV) I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isaiah 45:5 (KJV) I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Isaiah 45:18 (KJV) For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Who did Jesus believe I the One God?

John 17:3 (KJV) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

When Jesus stated this, this has nothing to do with him humbling himself because he still left out that the Holy Spirit and God the Son was also the true God. If they were separate CO-EQUAL persons, Jesus should have mentioned them also.

Jesus HUMANITY was speaking so he shouldn’t have left out God the Son and Holy Spirit if they are separate!!!

Who did Paul believe to be the only God?

1 Corinthians 8:6 (KJV) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Ephesians 4:6 (KJV) One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

So we see here that Paul believed in one God and one Lord which is the humanity of Jesus Christ for Paul said:

1 Timothy 2:5 (KJV) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Malachi 2:10 (KJV) Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

So we see that the only God is the Father. He is called “Father” because he created us, so another question arises, who manifested himself in the flesh… was it God the Son or was it God who is known to be our Father?

Matthew 1:23 (KJV) Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Luke 1:31 (KJV) And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

Luke 1:35 (KJV) And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

John 8:19 (KJV) Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

John 8:28 (KJV) Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

John 12:45 (KJV) And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

John 14:8 (KJV) Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

John 14:9 (KJV) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John 14:10 (KJV) Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Notice that Jesus never claimed that God the Son is in him and is doing the works but he only refers to the Father being in him. The eternal God the Son doesn’t empower the body of Christ but the Father does.

Mark 13:32 (KJV) But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Why doesn’t the Son and Holy Spirit know? Aren’t they suppose to be co-equal separate persons?

Jesus is called “The Son” because he was born of a woman (Gal. 4:4; Matt. 1:22-23; Lk. 1:31) not because he was an eternal person beside the Father in the Godhead. Thus the title “Son” is only given to the humanity of Christ not an eternal second person.

Jesus Created Us -

Colossians 1:15-16 (KJV) 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

John 1:3 (KJV) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Since God in general is our Father and creator then Jesus is also our Father because Scripture says he created us. This Isaiah 9:6 “…the mighty God, The Everlasting Father”

[N'ZI Amani Germain]

Amen! Amen! and Amen dear sister Della Morton!

Jesus Christ is alive!

O I love Him! I love Him!

Bro. Germain

[Della Morton]

JAMES Please Read all of This and Read The Word on Jesus Christ's Deity!
Be Sure to tell me what you think. God Bless.Love In Christ,Della Morton


THERE IS BUT ONE GOD!
Shema Israel YHWH elohanu YHWH echad, "Hear O Israel, Yaweh is our God. Yaweh is one" (Deut. 6:4).

There is only one God. This is the emphatic teaching of the Old Testament. The Jews were the people who knew their God if anyone did (John 4:22), and they had no concept of persons within the Godhead. In the book of Isaiah God makes some very strong statements which I believe do not allow for a Trinitarian understanding. In Isaiah 44:6&8 God makes the statement, "I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me . . . Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any." Could scripture be any plainer than this? In verse 24 he states, "I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone." If language means anything then "by Myself" and "alone" mean that there was no other person present. If God is not claiming that he is absolutely one here, then what stronger language would one suggest to convey this? Why would God be so emphatic about oneness, if in reality he were three persons? Would not these statements be misleading? In the next chapter he states, "I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. . . . That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me. I am the LORD, and there is no other, The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these" (Isa. 45:5-7). Once again, if God were really three persons, could he use such emphatic language as this? If we take this to be one of the members of the Trinity speaking here, would it be honest for him to say, "There is no one besides Me?" Would he not be forced to admit that there are indeed two other persons in the Godhead? In 46:9 God says, "Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me." In this statement, there is one person speaking (notice the singular pronouns) and that singular person says that there is no one like him. I do not see how it is possible to see a Trinity in these passages.1

Surely the coming of Christ did not in any way compromise this strict Monotheism taught in the Old Testament. There is only one God. That God is our father. If Jesus is that God then Jesus is our father. As to his deity, Jesus Christ is God the Father. Isaiah 9:6 clearly calls him the Father. Some have argued that this should be translated "Father of Eternity," but not one major translation translates it that way (see my article: Should Isaiah 9:6 read "Everlasting Father" or "Father of Eternity?"). However, even if we adopt the translation "Father of Eternity" does that diminish the force? Jesus is called the Father. I Corinthians 8:6 tells us that, "to us there is but one God, the Father." There is no God outside of the Father. So in the sense that Jesus is that God, then Jesus is the Father. Malachi 2:10 asks the question "Have we not all one Father? hath not one God created us?" So we all have one Father, and our Father is God. The reason we call God our Father is because he created us. John 1:3, Colossians 1:16 and Hebrews 1:2 tell us that all things were created by Jesus, thereby making him our Father. Be Sure To Look these up.

The Holy Spirit many times is simply referred to as the Spirit of God. Yet Scripture also speaks about us receiving the Spirit of Christ (Rom 8:9; Gal. 4:6; Ppn 1:19) or simply identifies him as the Spirit (2 Cor. 3:17; 1 Peter 1:11) and Ephesians 4:4 tells us that there is only one Spirit. This must all refer to the same person, the one true God. As to his deity, Jesus is the Holy Spirit. To recieve Christ is to receive the Spirit. Jesus told the disciples, "Even the Spirit of truth . . . ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." (John 14:17-18).

Now I will readily admit that on the surface Jesus does seem to speak of himself and the Father as if they were two persons. In fact, I would say that the first indication of Trinitarian thought began with Philip in John 14 when he asked Jesus, "Lord, show us the Father" (v. 8). Jesus had been speaking of God in a distanced way all this time, and poor Philip thought that he was speaking of another person. But, notice Jesus' response. He almost sounded as if he were puzzled when he said, "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip?" (v. 9). Jesus was saying that he himself was the one that Philip was asking for.
Jesus has a dual nature, He was Both the Father and MAN.
in Philippians 2:5-8, NIV: tells of his humanity.

5. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:

6. Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

7. but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

8. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death - even death on a cross!

Jerry Hayes explains it this way:

Many times the question is asked, "If Jesus was Father God why did he not just say so?" The answer to this question is so completely summed up in Philippians 2:5-8. He was humble. He did not think it a good thing to flaunt his deity before men. He did not choose to appear better than man, although he was better than all men for he was the creator of all men. He choose, instead, to have all men appear better than himself.

When Jesus spoke of the Father it was always in a way that distanced his own identity from that of Father God. This action was in keeping with his character of not appearing as God, although he was. Concerning this very subject Jesus made the following promise: "These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall not more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father: (John 16:25). Paul referred to this same event of revelation when he wrote unto Timothy, "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and the Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen" (1 Timothy 6:15-16).

At the time of this great revelation may we all bow low at his feet and whisper in hushed tones of adoration the confession of Thomas, THE LORD MY GOD! after seeing his nail scarred hands. In Zechariah 12:9-11 (King James Version)There was coming a day that was prophesied God would be pierced.

9And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

But that still leaves the question: Why does the New Testament make a distinction at times? The answer to this goes back to the dual nature of Jesus. In the capacity of being fully man, He was distinct from God. Not just distinct from the Father but from being God at all. This is why we can see references to the God of Jesus Christ (Matt. 27:46; John 20:17; Eph. 1:17). This is obviously not the God of God. It is the God of a man. Jesus is called a man over and over (Acts 2:22; 13:38; I Tim 2:5). As a man, there were things He did not know (Mark 13:32), there were things He could not do (Mark 6:5), He could only be in one place at one time (John 16:7), He could be tempted (Heb 4:15), He could thirst (John 19:28), and He could die (John 19:33). So from this point of view He was distinct from God, and could be spoken of that way. But from another point of view He was fully God and could be called such (John 20:28; I Tim 3:16; I John 5:20). When we see a separate reference it is always something like: "God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ." What you never see is: "God the Father and God the Son." It is always God and man, Spirit and flesh, God the Father and the Son of God. As I Timothy 2:5 puts it, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

In John 10:30 Jesus said, "I and my Father are one." Does that mean that they are one in unity? Well, I ask if that was all he meant then why did the Jews pick up stones to stone him? (v. 31) In fact, Jesus asks them why (v. 32), and they answered him, "because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God" (v. 33). They understood this as claiming to be God, not claiming to be in accordance with him. So if "I and the Father are one" means "I am God", then he must be God the Father. Some Trinitarians have tried to draw attention to the neuter gender of the word "one" in this passage (Gk - hen), claiming that this means that they are one in unity. However, this is the same word used in passages such as Eph. 4:4 where it says that there is "one Spirit," and no one would argue that this means only one in unity.

In Matthew 28:19, Jesus commanded the disciples to baptize "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." Yet they routinely baptized only in Jesus' name.3 Either they were mistaken, or they understood the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost to be Jesus. Surely the apostles didn't disobey their Lord.

I could give many scriptures to show that Jesus is indeed God, but here are a few more that show that he is specifically the Father (who is the only God, Mal 2:10; I Cor 8:6).
1. Jesus said that He would send the comforter to us (John 16:7), but He also said the Father would send the comforter (John 14:26).

2. The Father alone can draw men to God (John 6:44), yet Jesus said He would draw all men (John 12:32).

3. Jesus will raise up all believers in the last day (John 6:40), yet God the Father quickens (gives life to) the dead and will raise us up (Romans 4:17; I Corinthians 6:14).

4. Christ is our sanctifier (Ephesians 5:26), yet the Father sanctifies us (Jude 1).

We can easily understand all of this if we realize that Jesus has a dual nature. He is both Spirit and flesh, God and man, Father and Son.

Finally, I would like to look at a passage in Revelation 21, which clearly indicates that Jesus is the Father. Starting at verse 5 it reads: And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new [we are made new by being in Christ (2 Cor. 5:17)]." And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true [in Rev. 3:14 and 19:11 Jesus is called "faithful and true"]." 6 Then He said to me, "It is done. [compare to John 19:30, "it is finished"] I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. [In the very next chapter Jesus says this same thing, 22:13-16] I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost [Jesus gives the water of life, John 4:10-14; Rev. 7:17]. 7 He who overcomes [Jesus spoke these words seven times to each of the seven churches in the beginning of this epistle, 2:7,11,17,26;3:5,12,21] will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son" (emphasis added). Everything in this passage points towards Jesus as the speaker, yet at the end of the passage we realize that it is God the Father.

As our Lord said elsewhere, "These things I have spoken to you in figurative language; an hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but will tell you plainly of the Father" (John 16:25). Or as Zechariah the prophet said, "And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one" (Zech. 14:9).

[James Pierce]

Della,

Too long.. Such much by saying little ;). Write the major bullet points for what you are trying to say.

[Eccl. 12:13]

James:

This is a little off topic, but I was away from the forum for awhile. When I was last here you were using the following terms, "Yahweh" and "Yeshua".

And as I recall these were, according to you, the ONLY terms to use when referring to The Almight!

Now I see you are using yet another term, "HaShems". May I ask, what does THIS term mean and who does it refer to?

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Hashem is a Hebrew word which means "The Name". It was used simply because the Hebrews thought that GOD's name was so holy that no man should use it in fear of taking it in vain. Therefore, they started calling Him Elohim, Hashem and Adoni.

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

That's one part to it. The other part is that we do not know the exact sound of His name, and so we use "HaShem" for many reasons other than what's said.

[Eccl. 12:13]

OK....so which is it this month?

"Yahweh" and "Yeshua".

or

"HaShem"

And what was it that has changed your opinion?

[James Pierce]

eccl,

Yahweh is only a proposed name, and is not in the Hebrew manuscripts. We say "HaShem" because we do not know the exact sound of His name.