What if I was baptized in (The Titles)Father, Son, Holy Ghost is that Incorrect?

[Della Morton]

There's Bad News If you were!! because no one in the entire Testament Church Was ever baptized that Way! Let us examine the new Testament Water baptisms and Find The right Way to be baptized! The Good News Is Your here and Hopefully Have a desire to Follow the Bible.


There has been some beliefs state salvation is accepting Jesus as your personal savior. By acknowledging he is the son of God that your saved. Then they teach and baptize in the titles Father Son and Holy Spirit.

But what does the Bible say?

Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

You Must believe to come to salvation. But believing is not salvation.

Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

Why did he ask them How they were baptized? Does it matter how your baptized?

YES


Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

So they first were taught.

Secondly they believed

Then was baptized

Next you will see they was filled with the Holy Ghost and the evident of the Holy Ghost came By that God given tongue that God gives to each he fills with his spirit.

Now we see prior to this they had repented but didn’t know the truth about really being saved. But once they seen the truth they willingly received God.

Act 2:37

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Act 2:38

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Mat 16:18

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Mat 16:19

And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


Now What did peter who God said upon who he was going to build his church on and who was given the keys too say?


Repent, Be baptized and How did he say to be baptized? In the titles Father Son and Holy Spirit?

NO.

He said IN THE NAME OF. NAME NOT NAMES OR TITLES. SINGULAR ONE NAME.

And he gave us what that one name to our one God is. JESUS.

Find in the word where there was ever anyone baptized in the titles father son, holy spirit.

It is not in there. You will never find in Gods word where any one was baptized the 3 titles. NAME OF Means one name singular.

There is one verse in the book of Matthew 28:19 and when you read this verse understand that anytime Jesus tried to make the people understand who he really was they wanted to stone him. His mission wasn’t to prove he was God just yet. His mission was to bring us to him by coming in a fleshly form. Every time they would question who he was he would talk to them in riddles or in a way they wasn’t sure just what he was saying for sure. Even still they wanted to stone him. He slipped away through the crowd many times. So when he spoke of Matt 28:19 he was using wisdom talking of a shadow of what was to come. If he has said go out teaching men to baptize in my name they would have stoned him. Most of the things he spoke did not even come to them or fully understand until he died on the cross then more when he rose again like he said he would do. Then on the day of Pentecost wow. What he said about coming back and living in me was true. For the first time in their lives they saw Christ for who he really was. Ok here is that verse Christ spoke while still walking in a flesh form with them.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

He didn’t give the name of yet they would soon find what that name was to be.
He does give us a Clue that there is one Name for remission of sins by preaching the gospel.
Luke 24:46-47 (King James Version)

46And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Act 2:41

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Now those three thousand didn’t just say that they believe that God sent Jesus and that they accept him only. They Repented and were baptized in JESUS NAME and was filled with his spirit (with the evidence by speaking in tongues)

Act 2:42

And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Somewhere along the way a large percentage of the church world has left the apostles doctrine. Are we to still follow the doctrine that God set up through the apostles?


Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


Eph 4:4

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Eph 4:5

One Lord, one faith, one Baptism,

Eph 4:6

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Living a good life will not save you. the word tells us that if you haven’t been born of the water and the spirit which is to repent and receive the Holy Ghost and Baptism that you will not make it to heaven.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Oh come on I was baptized and believe besides I don’t have to give up as much going to the church I am at now. Whats the big deal? They love God too. What God isn’t gonna let them in just because they didn’t speak in all that tongue stuff or get baptized in Jesus name.

Joh 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

Joh 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

Joh 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.



Joh 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.



Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

See what did I tell you earlier? He was trying to let them see hey guys I came from heaven robed in this skin because I love you. But they couldn’t see that. Do you really think they would have accepted him saying Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Like was said in acts 2:38?

Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

Joh 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Joh 10:39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,

Below is some of the scriptures from the word of God on baptism.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Act 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Acts 8:34-39 (King James Version)

34And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

35Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

He Is The Only Way We Can be Saved.
Don't You Want to Be Baptized the Right Way Today?
Please drop me a line on my page . Love In Christ Della Morton

Here is a Bible Study video on Why Is Water baptism Of The Father,Son, Holy Spirit Incorrect?
FIND OUT "WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL?" A must see video.

[Della Morton]

http://www.jesus-messiah.com/apologetics/catholic/matthew-proof.html\

Please click on this Link above.
The Lord Bless you!

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

I just had to look up Matthew 28:18 in the Greek form. It clearly coincides with the truth that when one is baptized into the name of the FATHER the Son and the HOLY SPIRIT, this process is all about the "authority". The Greek word "ὄνομα" literally means "a name, authority, cause". This word literally spoke of one's character and authority, not a literal name like Bob or Jack.

The name of YHWH is the most authoritative name, above all Heaven and Earth. Though Paul stated that JESUS has the name above all names, Peter stated correctly that the name of JESUS has the greatest saving name "under Heaven" (Acts 4:12), which in royal terms, is the throne of GOD. Therefore, the name of JESUS is authoritative above all names in creation, however like Pharaoh said to Joseph, so it is with YHWH the FATHER saying to His Son JESUS:

Genesis 41:40 "Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou."

This authority is clearly shown being given to the Son of GOD in Daniel:

Daniel 7:9-14 "I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given Him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve Him: His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."

This is not a vision of duel natures a the Oneness doctrine is led to teach and falsely believe. This is a vision of the FATHER granting the Son all authority and power, and the Son submitting to His Father as the Prince of Life rightfully should.

JESUS Himself declared us His brothers and sisters, not His sons and daughters. There are no scriptures to show that JESUS called us His children, however there are scriptures that clearly quote Him saying that we are His siblings.

[Della Morton]

Not quite Trevor: let us look at the account a little more closely.

Daniel saw a vision recorded in Daniel 7:9-28, in which he saw two figures. The first being Daniel saw was called the Ancient of Days. He had a garment as white as snow, hair like pure wool, a throne like fire, and wheels like fire. He sat upon the throne and judged thousands upon thousands of people. Then Daniel saw "one like the Son of man" coming to the Ancient of Days. This man was given an everlasting dominion over all people and an everlasting kingdom. Some trinitarians interpret this to be a vision of God the Father and God the Son. However, let us examine the scriptures a little more closely.

In the Book of Revelation, it appears that the Ancient of Days is none other than Jesus Christ Himself! Revelation 1:12-18 describes Jesus Christ as clothed in a garment, with hair as white as wool, eyes like a flame of fire, and feet like fine brass as if they burned in a furnace. Moreover, many scriptural passages explain that Jesus Christ the Son of man will be the judge of all men (Matthew 25:31-32; John 5:22, 27; Romans 2:16; II Corinthians 5:10). Furthermore, Jesus will sit upon the throne (Chapter 4). In Daniel's vision, the horn (antichrist) made war until the Ancient of Days came (Daniel 7:21-22), but we know that Jesus Christ will come back to earth and destroy the armies of the antichrist (Revelation 19:11-21). In sum, we find that Jesus in Revelation fits the description of the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7. If the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7 is the Father, then Jesus must be the Father.

In Daniel 7:13, one like the Son of man comes to the Ancient of Days and receives dominion from Him. Who is this? The scene appears to be a vision of a man who represents the saints of God. This explanation is probably the one most consistent with the chapter. Daniel received the interpretation of the vision beginning with verse 16. Verse 18 says the saints of the most High shall possess the kingdom for ever and ever. Then verse 22 says the saints will possess the kingdom. Verses 26-27 say the kingdom and dominion (same words as in verse 13) shall be given to the saints of the most High, and this kingdom is an everlasting one. Of course, verse 27 concludes by saying all dominions are ultimately under God.

Daniel 7:16-28, therefore, gives us the interpretation of 7:9-14. By its own terms, the chapter identifies the "one like the Son of man" as a representation of the saints of God. The NIV translates the phrase in verse 13 as "one like a son of man." We should note the lack of the definite article (the) in this translation, which reflects a lack of the same in the original language. We should also bear in mind that in the Old Testament "son of man" can refer to any individual man (Ezekiel 2:1) or to mankind in general (Psalm 8:4; 146:3; Isaiah 51:12). In Psalm 80:17 the phrase connotes a man to whom God has given sovereignty and power. So the interpretation that "son of man" represents the saints is consistent with the use of the phrase in other passages of Scripture.

Some equate Daniel's "one like the Son of man" with Jesus Christ, since Jesus often called Himself the Son of man. However, this identification ignores the interpretation that Daniel 7 itself gives. If Daniel meant to refer to Christ, why did he not call Him the Messiah as he did in 9:25? Furthermore, even if the "Son of man" in Daniel were Jesus Christ, "one like the Son of man" need not be. In fact, the phrasing could indicate that the man in Daniel's vision is not Jesus, but someone like Him, namely the saints or the church. We know that the saints are sons of God, joint heirs with Christ, brothers of Christ, conformed to the image of Christ, and like Christ (Romans 8:17, 29; I John 3:1-2).

In any event, we must remember that Daniel's vision was prophetic in nature and not descriptive of an actual situation in his time. If we assume that the man in Daniel 7 is Jesus Christ, then at most the vision shows Jesus' two roles of Father and Son. It cannot teach two persons because the Ancient of Days is identified as Jesus in His divinity. At most this passage may portray the dual nature and role of Jesus, much like the vision in Revelation 5 of the One on the throne (God in all His deity) and the Lamb (Jesus in His human, sacrificial role). (See Chapter 9 - NEW TESTAMENT EXPLANATIONS: ACTS TO REVELATION for a full explanation of this passage in Revelation.)

In conclusion, "one like the Son of man" or "one like a son of man" in Daniel 7 represents the saints who will inherit the kingdom of God. If it does refer to Jesus Christ, then it describes Him in His human role just as the Ancient of Days describes Him in His divine role.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

This response of yours is so fallible, I honestly don't know where to begin! Let me try to start bit by bit:

-You never responded to the statement that I made concerning JESUS declaring Himself to be our brother. JESUS never called Himself our Father, and no scripture ever declares such, however scriptures do declare Him to be our joint heir and brother under GOD the Father. This you have never responded to, and I doubt that you have the capability of properly refuting it, simply because my statements are Biblically backed.

- You said: "In the Book of Revelation, it appears that the Ancient of Days is none other than Jesus Christ Himself! Revelation 1:12-18 describes Jesus Christ as clothed in a garment, with hair as white as wool, eyes like a flame of fire, and feet like fine brass as if they burned in a furnace. Moreover, many scriptural passages explain that Jesus Christ the Son of man will be the judge of all men (Matthew 25:31-32; John 5:22, 27; Romans 2:16; II Corinthians 5:10). Furthermore, Jesus will sit upon the throne (Chapter 4). In Daniel's vision, the horn (antichrist) made war until the Ancient of Days came (Daniel 7:21-22), but we know that Jesus Christ will come back to earth and destroy the armies of the antichrist (Revelation 19:11-21). In sum, we find that Jesus in Revelation fits the description of the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7. If the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7 is the Father, then Jesus must be the Father."


Yes JESUS is shown clothed in majesty in the Book of Revelation, however this does not show Him being the Ancient of Days. You ignored the similar vision shown to John:

Revelation 4:1-3 "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald."

Revelation 5:4-7 "And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne."

This combination shows the exact scene shown in Daniel's vision. This was not CHRIST on the throne, but the Father. CHRIST is shown as the Lion of Judah.


- You said: "In Daniel 7:13, one like the Son of man comes to the Ancient of Days and receives dominion from Him. Who is this? The scene appears to be a vision of a man who represents the saints of God. This explanation is probably the one most consistent with the chapter. Daniel received the interpretation of the vision beginning with verse 16. Verse 18 says the saints of the most High shall possess the kingdom for ever and ever. Then verse 22 says the saints will possess the kingdom. Verses 26-27 say the kingdom and dominion (same words as in verse 13) shall be given to the saints of the most High, and this kingdom is an everlasting one. Of course, verse 27 concludes by saying all dominions are ultimately under God."

Where did you get the nonsense that this was the Saints?? JESUS clearly stated that He is the Son of Man, using the reference of Daniel's vision when in court against the Sanhedrin. PLEASE don't just try to free-style and make up an interpretation of who JESUS meant when He stated who it was.


- You said: "Daniel 7:16-28, therefore, gives us the interpretation of 7:9-14. By its own terms, the chapter identifies the "one like the Son of man" as a representation of the saints of God. The NIV translates the phrase in verse 13 as "one like a son of man." We should note the lack of the definite article (the) in this translation, which reflects a lack of the same in the original language. We should also bear in mind that in the Old Testament "son of man" can refer to any individual man (Ezekiel 2:1) or to mankind in general (Psalm 8:4; 146:3; Isaiah 51:12). In Psalm 80:17 the phrase connotes a man to whom God has given sovereignty and power. So the interpretation that "son of man" represents the saints is consistent with the use of the phrase in other passages of Scripture."

You're actually trying to use the NIV as a credible translation in this conversation?? Translators regard that version as being amongst the WORST of translations. I'm not a person that is "KJV only", for I also regard other translations. However, this may be a help to you when thinking about the NIV:

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/nivdelet.htm
http://bible.org/article/net-niv-esv-brief-historical-comparison

If you want to talk about "definite article", then you need to turn to the original Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek text. Oneness Pentecostals are notorious for avoiding the original text! Here are a few clips of such actions clearly shown in a debate:




-You said: "Some equate Daniel's "one like the Son of man" with Jesus Christ, since Jesus often called Himself the Son of man. However, this identification ignores the interpretation that Daniel 7 itself gives. If Daniel meant to refer to Christ, why did he not call Him the Messiah as he did in 9:25? Furthermore, even if the "Son of man" in Daniel were Jesus Christ, "one like the Son of man" need not be. In fact, the phrasing could indicate that the man in Daniel's vision is not Jesus, but someone like Him, namely the saints or the church. We know that the saints are sons of God, joint heirs with Christ, brothers of Christ, conformed to the image of Christ, and like Christ (Romans 8:17, 29; I John 3:1-2)."

You have literally disregarded the scriptures and have taken your Oneness interpretation over the clear-cut words of Christ and His Apostles and Prophets. Shame on you! Also, you stated that the saints are "the saints are sons of God, joint heirs with Christ, brothers of Christ". How is it that JESUS is our Father, but our Brother? You try to twist His role from Father to Brother just as you twist His role into a "Father of Himself" status.

[Della Morton]

Revelation 5:1 describes One on the throne in heaven with a book (scroll) in His right hand. Then verses 6-7 depict a Lamb who comes and takes the book out of the right hand of the One that sits on the throne. Does this mean there are two persons of God? No. Once again, we must remember that the Book of Revelation is highly symbolic. In fact, we know the passage in question is symbolic. First, John did not see the invisible Spirit of God, because John himself said no man has ever done that (John 1:18, I John 4:12). In fact, no man can see God (I Timothy 6:16). Revelation 5:5 says a "Lion" would open the book, but in verse 6 John saw a "Lamb" instead. Verse 6 says the Lamb was slain but yet it moved. It had seven eyes, which symbolize the seven spirits or the sevenfold Spirit of God (verse 6) and the omniscience of God (Proverbs 15:3). The Lamb had seven horns, which signify the fulness of God's power or God's omnipotence, because horns in the Bible usually symbolize power. (See Zechariah 1:18-19; Revelation 17:12-17.) All of the description of this scene demonstrates the symbolic nature of the passage. To understand it we must find out who the One on the throne is and who the Lamb is.

Revelation 4:2 and 8 describe the One on the throne as the "Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come." Yet, in Revelation 1:8 Jesus describes Himself as "the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." (See 1:11-18 and 22:12-16 for further proof that Jesus is the speaker of 1:8.) Also the One on the throne is the Judge (Revelation 20:11-12), and we know that Jesus will be the Judge of all (John 5:22, 27; Romans 2:16; 14:10-11). Therefore, we can conclude that the One on the throne is Jesus in all His power and deity.

The Lamb is the Son of God - Jesus Christ in His humanity, particularly in His sacrificial role. The New Testament identifies Jesus as the Lamb who offered His blood for our sins (John 1:36; I Peter 1:19). That is why Revelation 5:6 describes the Lamb as slain. God could not and did not die; only the humanity of Jesus died. So the Lamb represents Jesus only in His humanity as a sacrifice for sin. The rest of chapter 5 also proves this by describing the Lamb as our Redeemer.

That this Lamb is not merely an ordinary human is evident since He has the fulness of God's Spirit, including omniscience and omnipresence (verse 6). He has other roles as the Lion of the tribe of Judah and as the Root of David (verse 5). The Lion denotes Christ's kingly role and His descent from King David. Jesus was from the tribe of Judah (Matthew 1:1-3; Luke 3:33), which was the tribe of royalty from the time of David. The lion is the symbol of Judah as ruler (Genesis 49:9-10). The Root of David alludes to Christ's role as David's source (Creator) and David's God.

Another fact supports our point that the Lamb represents Jesus in His humanity rather than as a second person in the Godhead. The reason the Lamb appears is to open the book held by God. Many interpret this book to be the title deed of redemption. Others see it as symbolic of the mysteries and plans of God. Either way, it required a human being to open, for God did not redeem us nor did He reveal Himself to us in His role as the transcendent God. He used His manifestation in human flesh as the means both to reveal Himself and to be our kinsman redeemer. (See Leviticus 25:25, 47-49.) So the Lamb represents the humanity of Christ.

Many prominent trinitarian scholars agree that Revelation 5 is symbolic and does not describe God the Father on the throne and God the Son standing by the throne. The Pulpit Commentary identifies the One on the throne as the Triune God, [28] and the Lamb as the Christ in His human capacity. It states, "The Son in his human capacity, as indicated by his sacrificial form of the Lamb, can take and reveal the mysteries of the eternal Godhead in which he, as God, has part." [29] Thus, even in the eyes of trinitarian scholars, this scene is not an indication of a trinity in the Godhead.

We can conclude that the vision in Revelation 5 symbolically depicts the two natures and two roles of Jesus Christ. As Father, Judge, Creator, and King, He sits upon the throne; for in His deity He is the Lord God Almighty. As the Son, He appears as a slain lamb; for in His humanity He is the sacrifice slain for our sins. John did not see the invisible Spirit of God, but he did see a vision symbolically portraying Jesus on the throne in His role as God and as a lamb in His role as the Son of God sacrificed for sin.

If a person insists upon literalizing this demonstrably symbolic passage, then he would need to conclude that John still did not see two persons of God, but rather that he saw one God on the throne and a real lamb near the throne. This is not logical, but it reveals that the attempts of trinitarians to make the passage a proof text for a trinity is futile.

Other verses in Revelation make it clear that that Lamb is not a separate person from God. In particular, Revelation 22:1 and 3 speak of "the throne of God and of the Lamb," referring to the one throne of 4:2 and 5:1. After mentioning "God and the Lamb," Revelation 22:3 goes on to talk about "his servants," and verse 4 refers to "his face" and "his name." The Lamb and the glory of God light the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:23), yet the Lord God is the light (Revelation 22:5). So, "God and the Lamb" is one being. The phrase refers to Jesus Christ and designates His dual nature.

We conclude that Revelation 5, symbolic in nature, reveals the oneness of God. It describes One on the throne, but also describes a lion, a root, and a Iamb. Does this description reveal four in the Godhead? Clearly not. Rather, there is only One on the throne. The lion, the root, and the lamb all represent in symbolic form the characteristics and qualifications of the One worthy to open the seals of the book. The lion tells us He is the King from the tribe of Judah. The root tells us He is the Creator. The lamb tells us He is God incarnate and our sacrifice. It is only in this last role that He can be our Redeemer and can open the book. Thus, Revelation 5 teaches there is one God and this one God came in flesh as the Lamb (the Son) to reveal Himself to man and to redeem man from sin.

[Della Morton]

TREVOR: It is not God's fault that later man-made doctrines of the Trinity have twisted the meaning of Scripture out of context. The Trinity was a later development by the council of Nicaea in 325A.D IT WAS NOT PART OF THE ORIGINAL CHURCH RECORDED IN THE BIBLE BY JESUS AND HIS APOSTLE"S IT WAS NEVER TAUGHT.

Second, God sometimes has a purpose in presenting truth in a partially hidden way. In Matthew 13:10, the disciples asked Jesus why He spoke to the people in parables. He explained that the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven were not given to the people (verse 11). Why? "Because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand… For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them" (Matthew 13:13-15). In other words, the people did not really desire to hear, see, and understand more about God. If He spoke to them plainly, they might understand despite their lack of spiritual desire. Therefore, Jesus spoke in parables so that only those who are truly hungry and thirsty for righteousness would be filled (Matthew 5:6), and that only sincerely diligent seekers would find the truth (Hebrews 11:6). After giving this answer, Jesus proceeded to explain to the disciples a parable He had just given to the multitude.

Could it be that God allows some verses of Scripture to be a stumbling block to those who are satisfied with the traditions of men and to those who do not seek the truth sincerely, earnestly, and wholeheartedly? Could it be that these same verses become great revelations to those who earnestly seek the mind of the Spirit? If so, this places a heavy responsibility on those who were reared knowing truth. If they do not have a hunger and a love for the truth equal to that which God requires of others, they will eventually fall from the truth themselves (II Thessalonians 2:10-12). Perhaps this explains why many in Christendom never find the truth, why some who have it lose it, and why some who have at least part of the truth lose what they do have.

[Della Morton]

"At first the Christian Faith was not trinitarian. It was not so in the Apostolic and sub-Apostolic ages, as reflected in the New Testament and of the early Christian writings [Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics]."

"The doctrine of the trinity was of gradual and comparatively late formation. It had its origin in a source entirely foreign from that of the Jewish and Christian Scriptures. It grew up, and was engrafted on Christianity, through the hands of the Platonizing Fathers. [The Church of the First Three Centuries]."

"Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it ... From Egypt came the ideas of a divine trinity" (The Story of Civilization, Caesar and Christ, Will Durant, Part III, 1944, p. 595).

"The trinity "is a corruption borrowed from the heathen religions, and ingrafted on the Christian faith" (A Dictionary of Religious Knowledge, Lyman Abbott, 1875, p944).

"Precisely what the doctrine is, or precisely how it is to be explained, Trinitarians are not agreed among themselves" (A Dictionary of Religious Knowledge" (Lyman Abbott, 1875, p. 944).

[Della Morton]

Ok, This is what the bible says:
Colossians 2:8-9 (King James Version)

8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

So another words when you have Jesus you have the Father and the holy Ghost! The completeness of the Godhead is all in HIM!!! In who? Jesus Christ. He alone is your Savior!
Here is a conversation I had with a friend
I wrote.

Sister Valerie: You said this in your letter:

Col.2:9 This scripture tells me that in Christ is ALL the Godhead bodily. Simply put, the man Christ is 100% God and represents the complete Godhead. So, Christ as the Head of the Body is the representation of the entire trinity. This is a majestic plural if we think about it!

My Note:
This is an excellent revelation of who God is! But only one problem the trinitarian scholars would disagree with you on what your are saying because that means they again would have to change their doctrine. Proving it's human errors. They believe this:
from the Roman Catholic Church:

God is a trinity of persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as Father. They are not three gods and not three beings. They are three distinct persons; yet, they are all the one God. Each has a will, can speak, can love, etc., and these are demonstrations of personhood. They are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are coeternal, coequal, and copowerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God.


You see by you saying one can be identified as the entire Godhead of the trinity than you are ruining the co equal and co eternal and co powerful.
Now look at their statement of faith the son is not the comforter which is the holy Ghost.
My Bible tells me different!! Jesus said in John 14:17 (King James Version)

17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:18 (King James Version)

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

The trinitarians use the verses before it that says he will send another Comforter. Which can seem like another person But they fail to read down and see that Jesus said He will come to us!
Amen!

Jesus Is The Holy Spirit!

Colossians 1:27 (King James Version)

27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:



By picking one person Like Jesus you are in their terms excluding the other two as lesser.
but this is simply not true!!!
Col.2:8-9 proves it to be so.
Praise The Lord Jesus! His Truth Remains Forever regardless of what man says!Hallelujah!

Do you see how the doctrine of the trinity does not harmonize with scripture?
For example The Bible points to Christ! He is the Father manifested in the flesh and is the Holy Spirit. If you have one God and are believing that Jesus Is the savior! One God is not 3 persons, But rather 3 manifestations of the One God.He's a spirit! Jn:4:24
The trinity says if you believe in THREE PERSONS YOU ARE BELIEVING IN GOD! The opposite of what the bible is saying! The bible says if you are believing On Christ 1 person you have All of GOD!!!!

Do you see this Logic?
You are blessed to see that Jesus is the one God in Scripture!!
Love In Christ, Della Morton

[Della Morton]

100 New Testament versus showing that God and Jesus are different identities in a trinity)

Here is a simple and effective test you can do that clearly shows that the Trinity is a false doctrine.

Try replacing the word 'God' in any of the 100 verses below (or any other verse) with the word 'Trinity' (or Father, Son, Holy Spirit). E.g. John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Becomes: "For THE TRINITY so loved the world that THE TRINITY gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Above we can see that if God were truly a Trinity, then Jesus has to be the son of the Trinity which doesn't make sense does it? If we think God is a Trinity, then the above verse speaks of 4 persons, not 3, (The Trinity, plus the son of the Trinity).

Try some of the verses below and see how the Trinity Doctrine breaks the true meaning of all these verses:
Matthew 27:46
Mark 1:24
Mark 10:18
Mark 15:34
Mark 16:19
Luke 2:52
Luke 6:12
Luke 18:19
John 3:2
John 8:42
John 8:54
John 9:3
John 13:31
John 14:1*
John 17:3
John 20:17
Acts 2:22
Acts 2:32
Acts 2:36
Acts 3:13
Acts 4:10
Acts 5:30
Acts 7:55
Acts 10:36
Acts 10:38
Acts 13:23
Acts 20:21
Romans 1:7
Romans 1:8
Romans 2:16
Romans 3:22
Romans 4:24
Romans 5:1
Romans 5:11
Romans 5:15
Romans 5:17
Romans 6:23
Romans 7:25
Romans 8:34
Romans 10:9
Romans 15:5
Romans 15:6
Romans 16:27
1 Corinthians 1:3
1 Corinthians 1:9
1 Corinthians 1:30
1 Corinthians 8:6
1 Corinthians 15:57
2 Corinthians 1:2
2 Corinthians 1:3
2 Corinthians 11:31
2 Corinthians 13:14
Galatians 1:1
Galatians 1:3
Ephesians 1:2
Ephesians 1:3
Ephesians 1:17
Ephesians 2:6
Ephesians 6:23
Philippians 1:2
Philippians 2:11
Colossians 1:3*
Colossians 3:17
1 Thessalonians 1:1
1 Thessalonians 1:3
1 Thessalonians 3:11
1 Thessalonians 3:13
1 Thessalonians 4:14
1 Thessalonians 5:9
2 Thessalonians 1:1
2 Thessalonians 1:2
2 Thessalonians 1:12
2 Thessalonians 2:16
1 Timothy 1:1
1 Timothy 1:2
1 Timothy 2:5
1 Timothy 5:21
1 Timothy 6:3
2 Timothy 1:1
2 Timothy 1:2
2 Timothy 4:1
Titus 1:4
Titus 2:13
Philemon 1:3
Hebrews 13:20
James 1:1
1 Peter 1:2
1 Peter 2:5
2 Peter 1:1
2 Peter 1:2
1 John 5:1*
1 John 5:20
2 John 1:3
Jude 1:1
Jude 1:4
Jude 1:21
Jude 1:25
Revelation 1:1
Revelation 1:2
Revelation 14:12

[Della Morton]

Three Persons, Three Lords and Three Gods

The reason people continue to insist upon three people in the Godhead is that they do not understand the dual nature of Christ. On the group Knowing who this One God you can find a study entitled “the dual nature of Christ”.

It amazes me that people choose to run with the Popes of Rome of whom never had a revelation of God and were never born again. These same preachers and believers believe that God is three persons as the Roman Catholic church has taught for 1,800 years. What most people don’t know, it was a Pope from Rome who changed the water baptism in the 3rd century from “in the name of Jesus Christ” to “in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit”.

It was at the Nicene Counsel of the Roman Catholic church in 325 AD that the teaching of the trinity came about. In the first two centuries after Jesus ascension you cannot find any teachings of Jehovah God as being a trinity. The teaching came about by a backslidden church that began to compromise with the local pagans to bring about religious harmony. The local pagans worshiped multiple Gods by many names. For an example, the mother and child worship (Mary and Jesus) is centuries older than Mary herself. Look in your history and you will see pictures of statues that have been excavated of a woman holding a child. These are much older than 2,000 years! Again the pagans and backslid church of the day both compromised there standards. Of course the pagans were already lost so there compromise did not hurt them any worse. The sad part is that the church was falling further and further from many truths originally held by the early church. This falling away was spoken of by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:3

2 Thess 2:3
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
KJV

This falling away of the church was yet to happen and as we can see the Apostle Paul had revelation of it. Much of the church forsook the teaching of the “oneness” of God and water baptism “in the name of Jesus Christ” in the 2nd and 3rd centuries. Do a google search “Nicene Counsel 325 AD”. You can read all about it.

Let me show you why this teaching is so wrong…
The Trinity in a nutshell is “God in three separate persons, all three are Lord and all three are God”.
If the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three separate persons than…
The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three separate Lords and
The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are three separate Gods!
The end result of this pagan teaching is that God is three separate persons, three separate Lords and three separate Gods. This is complete heresy!

Everything that I have written here is documented history. The Roman Catholic church admits to having changed the teachings of baptism and the Oneness of God. They admit it and it is in their encyclopedias! They know they did it and don’t deny it. The secular encyclopedias also verify that truth.

Rev 18:4
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.KJV

Part of chapters 17 & 18 in Revelation is about the coming Roman Catholic church. God is saying “come out of her my people”. Look in your history and you will find where the church of Rome has murdered an estimated 68 million Christians that believed in the oneness of God and were baptized in Jesus name. Google it, it’s there!

The Pope in 1962 at the Vatican Counsel said “we the Mother church are opening our arms for all of our daughters to return home”. Every person that has been baptized in the triune formula is part of the the Roman catholic church. The Pope claims you. You came out of the Catholic church by means of the Reformation. The only church the Popes will not claim is the church that baptizes in Jesus name and believes in the oneness of God.

The true Apostolic church did not come out of the reformation but existed even before the catholic church. The true Apostolic church was founded by the Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ!

Come out of the Trinitarian teachings, forsake them and cleave only to the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ and his twelve apostles.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

Thats funny, you just listed almost all of the scriptures that Trinitarians use to substantiate their stance!

I have to ask: are you really responding to people's comments, or are you just posting stuff so that you can be heard? Is this a real dialog, or are you that blinded and deep into your doctrine that you will not even converse on the subject?

SAVE ME THE EXTRA LONG ANSWER! A SIMPLE ONE WILL DUE!!

[Della Morton]

Without understanding the dual nature of Christ you may believe that God is two, three or more. If one does not get a clear revelation of the dual nature of the Lord Jesus Christ then he/she may not see how that God is ONE in number, ONE in person.

To understand Christ's dual nature, first you must STOP trying to prove what you believe!

If a man for the first time heard of God and seen a Bible what would he believe? With no preconceived ideas or religious teaching he must be open minded for truth or he will never receive it. The Bible says that "the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness unto him".

Christ while on earth had two natures. The first was a human nature and number two a divine nature.

He did many things as a man and he did many things as God. Sometimes the Bible refers to him as human but other times it refers to him as God. What you must do is understand which nature is being referred to. If a nature to you is a person then you will have at least two persons of God. In doing this you also will make yourself two persons! If you have the Holy Ghost then you have a divine nature but at the same time you are reminded daily that you have a human nature.

Here are a fews things Jesus did as a man.

1. He was born
2. He slept in a boat
3. He ate
4. He wept
5. He died
6. He was buried



Here are a few things Christ did as God.

1. He spoke to the storm and it stopped
2. He multiplied the fish
3. He raised Lazarus from the dead
4. He made the blind to see
5. He walked on water
6. He raised himself from the dead

The examples can go on and on but I think you get the point. We also received a "divine nature" the Bible says. So when you "walk" in the Spirit as Paul taught, you are walking in that divine nature. In that divine nature miracles are bound to happen! As Jesus did miracles as a man through his divine nature we also can do miracles through that divine nature dwelling in us. As Jesus was the son of God here on earth, we also are sons and daughters of God in this world, we are the physical body of Christ in this world today.

Notice the terminology the Bible uses about Jesus. There are terms for the human nature and terms for the divine nature.

Terms for the human nature.

* flesh
* lamb
* son
* man


Terms for the divine nature

* Spirit
* God
* Holy Ghost
* Father

The terms "flesh, lamb, son and man" point to Jesus' humanity.

The terms "God, Spirit, Holy Ghost and Father" point to Jesus' deity.

Jesus said in John "the works I do I do not of myself, it is the Father that dwelleth in me , he doeth the works." Understand that your flesh cannot do a miracle. Jesus was saying that even about himself. It was the Father in him doing the miracles. Jesus said "the flesh profiteth nothing, it is the Spirit that quickeneth." The two natures fused into one person. Jesus said in John 3, he that is born of the Spirit is Spirit and he that is born of the flesh is flesh".

We at some point get born again and we immediately have two natures. We are born with the nature of flesh but the new birth gives us that divine nature!

John 4:24 tells us that "God is a Spirit". That Spirit (God) spoke a seed into the womb of Mary and this baby to be born was the son of God. When this baby was born, he was born with two natures. He did not have to be born again. Yes, Jesus was born with a human nature and a God nature. 1 Timothy 3:16 says that "God was manifest in the flesh". Who was manifest in the flesh? Jehovah God was! God was revealed in a human body! The invisible Jehovah God was made known to us as a man and we call him the Son of God! This Son of God was Jehovah God of the Old Testament revealed in human form!

Jesus the man was at the same time Jehovah God! Jesus had two natures, one was divine and the other was human. One nature was temporal and the other was eternal. One nature was Spirit and the other was flesh!