YESHUA OR JESUS? WOULD YOU GO TO HELL FOR REFERRING TO HIM AS JESUS?
Dear brothers and sisters in Christ!
Please, take time to read the articles below, then give me your view point according to the holy scriptures!
ARTICLE I
"Yeshua or Jesus?
The Mis-Transliteration of a Greek Mis-Transliteration.
Yeshua is the original Aramaic proper name for Jesus the Nazarene, who lived from about 6 B.C.E. to 27 C.E. (A.D.) The word "Jesus" is actually a mis-transliteration of a Greek mis-transliteration. The Emperor Constatine even mistook Jesus for Apollo, the son of the Greek god Zeus. In Hebrew Yeshua means Salvation while the name Jesus has no intrinsic meaning in English whatsoever.
Yeshua Ben Yosef
It is most proper to call Him Yeshua. It was indeed his proper name, given to him by his parents, and only in Hebrew does this name have any meaning. In Hebrew Yeshua means both "Salvation," and the concatenated form of Yahoshua, is "Lord who is Salvation." The name Jesus has no intrinsic meaning in English whatsoever.
There are many Yeshuas that we read about in Biblical text and many are confused with the Yeshua who would later become the "Christ". The name Yeshua appears 29 times in the Tanach. Yehoshua (Joshua) of Nun is called Yeshua in Nechemyah (Nehemiah) 8:17. Yeshua is the name of the Cohain HaGadol (the high priest) in the time of Zerubavel in Ezra 3:2. It is the name of a Levite under King Hizkiyah (Hezekiah) in 2 Chronicles 31:15. There is even a city called Yeshua in the negev of Yehudah in Nechemyah11:26. Yeshua is also a shortened version of the word Yehoshua much like Bill is for William.
There are 7 other Yeshuas (Jesuses) in the Brit Chadashah. There is Elymas bar Yeshua in Acts 13:6. There is an ancestor of Yeshua HaMashiach: the son of Eliezar, the father of Er in Luke 3:29. In Rav Shaul's letter to the Colossians in chapter 4, verse 11, there is a Justus called Yeshua a fellow worker of Shaul. Josephus, the famous Jewish historian mentions 20 different Yeshuas (Jesuses), 10 of which are contemporary with Yeshua HaMashiach. All together, at least 50 Yeshuas from his time plus about 9 in the Tanach have been revealed from Biblical text and other literary sources.
Mis-Translating the Mis-Translation
Yeshua is a Hebrew name which has been transliterated into Greek as Iesous (IhsouV: pronounced "ee-ay-SUS"). The English "Jesus" comes from the Latin transliteration of the Greek name into the Latin Iesus. Now Greek has no "y" sound, but the Latin "i" is both an "i" and a "j" (i.e., it can have a consonantal force in front of other vowels), the latter of which is properly pronounced like the English "y" (which explains the German Jesu, "YAY-su")That is why we spell Jesus as we do, taking it straight from Latin, but we pronounce the name with a soft "j" sound because that is what we do in English with the consonantal "j".
The first letter in the name Yeshua ("Jesus") is the yod. Yod represents the "Y" sound in Hebrew. Many names in the Bible that begin with yod are mispronounced by English speakers because the yod in these names was transliterated in English Bibles with the letter "J" rather than "Y". This came about because in early English the letter "J" was pronounced the way we pronounce "Y" today. All proper names in the Old Testament were transliterated into English according to their Hebrew pronunciation via the Latin, but when English pronunciation shifted to what we know today, these transliterations were not altered. Thus, such Hebrew place names as ye-ru-sha-LA-yim, ye-ri-HO, and yar-DEN have become known to us as Jerusalem, Jericho, and Jordan; and Hebrew personal names such as yo-NA, yi-SHAI, and ye-SHU-a have become known to us as Jonah, Jesse, and Jesus. To further complicate matters, there was no letter "J" in the old English alphabet and the letter "I" was often used in its place. Often in early texts of the time, Jesus or Jerusalem would be spelled Iesus or Ierusalem.
The second sound in Yeshua's name is called tse-RE, and is pronounced almost like the letter "e" in the word "net". Just as the "Y" sound of the first letter is mispronounced in today's English, so too the first vowel sound in "Jesus". Before the Hebrew name "Yeshua" was transliterated into English, it was first transliterated into Greek. There was no difficulty in transliterating the tse-RE sound since the ancient Greek language had an equivalent letter which represented this sound. And there was no real difficulty in transcribing this same first vowel into English. The translators of the earliest versions of the English Bible transliterated the tse-RE in Yeshua with an "e". Unfortunately, later English speakers guessed wrongly that this "e" should be pronounced as in "me," and thus the first syllable of the English version of Yeshua came to be pronounced "Jee" instead of "Yeh". It is this pronunciation which produced such euphemistic profanities as "Gee" and "Geez".
Since Yeshua is spelled "Jeshua" and not "Jesus" in most English versions of the Old Testament (for example in Ezra 2:2 and 2 Chronicles 31:15), one easily gets the impression that the name is never mentioned in the Hebrew Scriptures. Yet 'Yeshua' appears there twenty-nine times, and is the name of at least five different persons and one village in the southern part of Yehudah ("Judah").
In contrast to the early biblical period, there were relatively few different names in use among the Jewish population of the Land of Israel at the time of the Second Temple. The name Yeshua was one of the most common male names in that period, tied with Eleazer for fifth place behind Simon, Joseph, Judah, and John. Nearly one out of ten persons known from the period was named Yeshua.
The first sound of the second syllable of Yeshua is the "sh" sound. It is represented by the Hebrew letter shin. However Greek, like many other languages, has no "sh" sound. Instead, the closest approximation, the Greek sigma, was used when transcribing "Yeshua" as "Iesus". Translators of English versions of the New Testament transliterated the Greek transcription of a Hebrew name, instead of returning to the original Hebrew. This was doubly unfortunate, first because the "sh" sound exists in English, and second because in English the "s" sound can shift to the "z" sound, which is what happened in the case of the pronunciation of "Jesus".
The fourth sound one hears in the name Yeshua is the "u" sound, as in the word "true". Like the first three sounds, this also has come to be mispronounced but in this case it is not the fault of the translators. They transcribed this sound accurately, but English is not a phonetic language and "u" can be pronounced in more than one way. At some point the "u" in "Jesus" came to be pronounced as in "cut," and so we say "Jee-zuhs."
The "a" sound, as in the word "father," is the fifth sound in Jesus' name. It is followed by a guttural produced by contracting the lower throat muscles and retracting the tongue root- an unfamiliar task for English speakers. In an exception to the rule, the vowel sound "a" associated with the last letter "ayin" (the guttural) is pronounced before it, not after. While there is no equivalent in English or any other Indo-European language, it is somewhat similar to the last sound in the name of the composer, "Bach." In this position it is almost inaudible to the western ear. Some Israelis pronounce this last sound and some don't, depending on what part of the dispersion their families returned from. The Hebrew Language Academy, guardian of the purity of the language, has ruled that it should be sounded, and Israeli radio and television announcers are required to pronounce it correctly. There was no letter to represent them, and so these fifth and sixth sounds were dropped from the Greek transcription of "Yeshua," -the transcription from which the English "Jesus" is derived.
So where did the final "s" of "Jesus" come from? Masculine names in Greek ordinarily end with a consonant, usually with an "s" sound, and less frequently with an "n" or "r" sound. In the case of "Iesus," the Greeks added a sigma, the "s" sound, to close the word. The same is true for the names Nicodemus, Judas, Lazarus, and others.
English speakers make one final change from the original pronunciation of Jesus' name. English places the accent on "Je," rather than on "sus." For this reason, the "u" has been shortened in its English pronunciation to "uh."
Portions borrowed from http://jesusisajew.org/YESHUA.php
In Jesus' Name
Today's tradition of pronouncing His completely hellenized name as "Jesus" has indeed obscured His true name, "Yeshua," and has shifted its perceived meaning much like most of His original teachings.
As with all things Essene however, there is always the exoteric and the esoteric philosophies and functions. That is, those ideas and teachings suitable to be imparted to the public, and those designed for or understood by the specially initiated alone.
Even His name, it would seem, became a part of this understanding. The name Jesus or Jesus Christ is often used in everything from idle conversation, to bumper stickers and jewelry, to enforcing false teachings, to justifying wars and political agendas, and is even used as a profanity. The name Yeshua however, has remained pure and holy, known and used only by those who would uphold His name and teachings in the highest regard and thus reserving His holy name for use only in spiritual matters and the most humbled and sincere of prayer and obeisances.
________________________________________
Special Note: In an effort to keep the integrity of the manuscripts within The Nazarene Way site and its archives intact, and for the purposes of study, correspondence and for future theological reference, the name Jesus does appear in many of our texts, files and manuscripts. To the devout student, the proper name Yeshua is always implied.
It is our intention to reproduce all texts as they were originally written or, as they were originally translated. We feel it is important that no text is ever arbitrarily or intentionally changed, altered, added to, replaced or corrected, to include spelling, punctuation or grammatical error. The word Jesus is also used on our main menu and index pages for general public recognition and for common browser and search engine purposes.
________________________________________
Source: http://www.thenazareneway.com/yeshua_jesus_real_name.htm
ARTICLE II
"please read entire article in above link explaining why the true name of messiah is not jesus.
The "J" Conspiracy
Another VERY revealing bit of evidence can be seen from the fact that there was no "J" common in the English language until around the 16th century. Prior to that time, those words now shown with a J were pronounced as though the J was a Y. So "Joshua," even in English, is proven conclusively to be "Yahshua" when the original Y sound is used. Thus, it is IMPOSSIBLE for "Jesus" to be anything close to the true name, because the "J" sound did not exist when he was alive! Did you get that? The name "Jesus" is proven to be incorrect simply from the fact the word "Jesus" did not exist until only 500 years ago because there was no such thing as a J in the language! This fact alone PROVES "Jesus" is a false name!
Furthermore, as mentioned previously, there is a LOT of powerful and convincing evidence that shows the Greek name for Messiah, Iesous, may be derived from the name of a pagan deity! YES, "JESUS" IS A WORD WHICH MAY DERIVE FROM THE NAME FOR A PAGAN GREEK GOD! IT MAY GIVE HONOR TO A PAGAN DEITY! The aforementioned book, Come Our of Her My People, by C. J. Koster, provides a LOT of evidence of this as well as many other proofs of Christianity's pagan foundations. Of course, few Christians dare investigate these things for fear of what they may discover. Their fears are well founded since they WILL find ample facts proving Constantinian Christianity to be a counterfeit, Babylonian based. A religion that may represent part of Satan's plan to usurp God and establish himself as the recipient of mankind's worship.
Hellooo? Why are preachers intentionally discarding and censoring the true name for Messiah and using a false name that may honor a pagan god in its place?
Let me ask that again. Why are Christian leaders intentionally discarding and censoring the true name for Messiah, (Yahshua) and using a false name instead (Jesus). Worse still, the false name "Jesus" is a name for which very strong evidence exists showing it may honor a pagan god?
Scholars differ regarding the correct name of Messiah. Some say Yeshua is correct. Some say Yahshua is correct, and some say Yahoshua is correct. The fact is no one knows FOR SURE which is correct. HOWEVER, ALL REPUTABLE SCHOLARS AGREE "JESUS" IS MOST CERTAINLY NOT CORRECT.
Anyone that thinks the Jewish parents of the Jewish Messiah that were strong adherents to the Judaic principles and lived in a Jewish contextual setting would give their son a Greek name is lacking in common sense! Seriously! How can anyone be deceived to the point of thinking the HEBREW Messiah would have a GREEK name? Such a thought is preposterous!"
Source: http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message531174/pg1
Please, take time to read the articles below, then give me your view point according to the holy scriptures!
ARTICLE I
"Yeshua or Jesus?
The Mis-Transliteration of a Greek Mis-Transliteration.
Yeshua is the original Aramaic proper name for Jesus the Nazarene, who lived from about 6 B.C.E. to 27 C.E. (A.D.) The word "Jesus" is actually a mis-transliteration of a Greek mis-transliteration. The Emperor Constatine even mistook Jesus for Apollo, the son of the Greek god Zeus. In Hebrew Yeshua means Salvation while the name Jesus has no intrinsic meaning in English whatsoever.
Yeshua Ben Yosef
It is most proper to call Him Yeshua. It was indeed his proper name, given to him by his parents, and only in Hebrew does this name have any meaning. In Hebrew Yeshua means both "Salvation," and the concatenated form of Yahoshua, is "Lord who is Salvation." The name Jesus has no intrinsic meaning in English whatsoever.
There are many Yeshuas that we read about in Biblical text and many are confused with the Yeshua who would later become the "Christ". The name Yeshua appears 29 times in the Tanach. Yehoshua (Joshua) of Nun is called Yeshua in Nechemyah (Nehemiah) 8:17. Yeshua is the name of the Cohain HaGadol (the high priest) in the time of Zerubavel in Ezra 3:2. It is the name of a Levite under King Hizkiyah (Hezekiah) in 2 Chronicles 31:15. There is even a city called Yeshua in the negev of Yehudah in Nechemyah11:26. Yeshua is also a shortened version of the word Yehoshua much like Bill is for William.
There are 7 other Yeshuas (Jesuses) in the Brit Chadashah. There is Elymas bar Yeshua in Acts 13:6. There is an ancestor of Yeshua HaMashiach: the son of Eliezar, the father of Er in Luke 3:29. In Rav Shaul's letter to the Colossians in chapter 4, verse 11, there is a Justus called Yeshua a fellow worker of Shaul. Josephus, the famous Jewish historian mentions 20 different Yeshuas (Jesuses), 10 of which are contemporary with Yeshua HaMashiach. All together, at least 50 Yeshuas from his time plus about 9 in the Tanach have been revealed from Biblical text and other literary sources.
Mis-Translating the Mis-Translation
Yeshua is a Hebrew name which has been transliterated into Greek as Iesous (IhsouV: pronounced "ee-ay-SUS"). The English "Jesus" comes from the Latin transliteration of the Greek name into the Latin Iesus. Now Greek has no "y" sound, but the Latin "i" is both an "i" and a "j" (i.e., it can have a consonantal force in front of other vowels), the latter of which is properly pronounced like the English "y" (which explains the German Jesu, "YAY-su")That is why we spell Jesus as we do, taking it straight from Latin, but we pronounce the name with a soft "j" sound because that is what we do in English with the consonantal "j".
The first letter in the name Yeshua ("Jesus") is the yod. Yod represents the "Y" sound in Hebrew. Many names in the Bible that begin with yod are mispronounced by English speakers because the yod in these names was transliterated in English Bibles with the letter "J" rather than "Y". This came about because in early English the letter "J" was pronounced the way we pronounce "Y" today. All proper names in the Old Testament were transliterated into English according to their Hebrew pronunciation via the Latin, but when English pronunciation shifted to what we know today, these transliterations were not altered. Thus, such Hebrew place names as ye-ru-sha-LA-yim, ye-ri-HO, and yar-DEN have become known to us as Jerusalem, Jericho, and Jordan; and Hebrew personal names such as yo-NA, yi-SHAI, and ye-SHU-a have become known to us as Jonah, Jesse, and Jesus. To further complicate matters, there was no letter "J" in the old English alphabet and the letter "I" was often used in its place. Often in early texts of the time, Jesus or Jerusalem would be spelled Iesus or Ierusalem.
The second sound in Yeshua's name is called tse-RE, and is pronounced almost like the letter "e" in the word "net". Just as the "Y" sound of the first letter is mispronounced in today's English, so too the first vowel sound in "Jesus". Before the Hebrew name "Yeshua" was transliterated into English, it was first transliterated into Greek. There was no difficulty in transliterating the tse-RE sound since the ancient Greek language had an equivalent letter which represented this sound. And there was no real difficulty in transcribing this same first vowel into English. The translators of the earliest versions of the English Bible transliterated the tse-RE in Yeshua with an "e". Unfortunately, later English speakers guessed wrongly that this "e" should be pronounced as in "me," and thus the first syllable of the English version of Yeshua came to be pronounced "Jee" instead of "Yeh". It is this pronunciation which produced such euphemistic profanities as "Gee" and "Geez".
Since Yeshua is spelled "Jeshua" and not "Jesus" in most English versions of the Old Testament (for example in Ezra 2:2 and 2 Chronicles 31:15), one easily gets the impression that the name is never mentioned in the Hebrew Scriptures. Yet 'Yeshua' appears there twenty-nine times, and is the name of at least five different persons and one village in the southern part of Yehudah ("Judah").
In contrast to the early biblical period, there were relatively few different names in use among the Jewish population of the Land of Israel at the time of the Second Temple. The name Yeshua was one of the most common male names in that period, tied with Eleazer for fifth place behind Simon, Joseph, Judah, and John. Nearly one out of ten persons known from the period was named Yeshua.
The first sound of the second syllable of Yeshua is the "sh" sound. It is represented by the Hebrew letter shin. However Greek, like many other languages, has no "sh" sound. Instead, the closest approximation, the Greek sigma, was used when transcribing "Yeshua" as "Iesus". Translators of English versions of the New Testament transliterated the Greek transcription of a Hebrew name, instead of returning to the original Hebrew. This was doubly unfortunate, first because the "sh" sound exists in English, and second because in English the "s" sound can shift to the "z" sound, which is what happened in the case of the pronunciation of "Jesus".
The fourth sound one hears in the name Yeshua is the "u" sound, as in the word "true". Like the first three sounds, this also has come to be mispronounced but in this case it is not the fault of the translators. They transcribed this sound accurately, but English is not a phonetic language and "u" can be pronounced in more than one way. At some point the "u" in "Jesus" came to be pronounced as in "cut," and so we say "Jee-zuhs."
The "a" sound, as in the word "father," is the fifth sound in Jesus' name. It is followed by a guttural produced by contracting the lower throat muscles and retracting the tongue root- an unfamiliar task for English speakers. In an exception to the rule, the vowel sound "a" associated with the last letter "ayin" (the guttural) is pronounced before it, not after. While there is no equivalent in English or any other Indo-European language, it is somewhat similar to the last sound in the name of the composer, "Bach." In this position it is almost inaudible to the western ear. Some Israelis pronounce this last sound and some don't, depending on what part of the dispersion their families returned from. The Hebrew Language Academy, guardian of the purity of the language, has ruled that it should be sounded, and Israeli radio and television announcers are required to pronounce it correctly. There was no letter to represent them, and so these fifth and sixth sounds were dropped from the Greek transcription of "Yeshua," -the transcription from which the English "Jesus" is derived.
So where did the final "s" of "Jesus" come from? Masculine names in Greek ordinarily end with a consonant, usually with an "s" sound, and less frequently with an "n" or "r" sound. In the case of "Iesus," the Greeks added a sigma, the "s" sound, to close the word. The same is true for the names Nicodemus, Judas, Lazarus, and others.
English speakers make one final change from the original pronunciation of Jesus' name. English places the accent on "Je," rather than on "sus." For this reason, the "u" has been shortened in its English pronunciation to "uh."
Portions borrowed from http://jesusisajew.org/YESHUA.php
In Jesus' Name
Today's tradition of pronouncing His completely hellenized name as "Jesus" has indeed obscured His true name, "Yeshua," and has shifted its perceived meaning much like most of His original teachings.
As with all things Essene however, there is always the exoteric and the esoteric philosophies and functions. That is, those ideas and teachings suitable to be imparted to the public, and those designed for or understood by the specially initiated alone.
Even His name, it would seem, became a part of this understanding. The name Jesus or Jesus Christ is often used in everything from idle conversation, to bumper stickers and jewelry, to enforcing false teachings, to justifying wars and political agendas, and is even used as a profanity. The name Yeshua however, has remained pure and holy, known and used only by those who would uphold His name and teachings in the highest regard and thus reserving His holy name for use only in spiritual matters and the most humbled and sincere of prayer and obeisances.
________________________________________
Special Note: In an effort to keep the integrity of the manuscripts within The Nazarene Way site and its archives intact, and for the purposes of study, correspondence and for future theological reference, the name Jesus does appear in many of our texts, files and manuscripts. To the devout student, the proper name Yeshua is always implied.
It is our intention to reproduce all texts as they were originally written or, as they were originally translated. We feel it is important that no text is ever arbitrarily or intentionally changed, altered, added to, replaced or corrected, to include spelling, punctuation or grammatical error. The word Jesus is also used on our main menu and index pages for general public recognition and for common browser and search engine purposes.
________________________________________
Source: http://www.thenazareneway.com/yeshua_jesus_real_name.htm
ARTICLE II
"please read entire article in above link explaining why the true name of messiah is not jesus.
The "J" Conspiracy
Another VERY revealing bit of evidence can be seen from the fact that there was no "J" common in the English language until around the 16th century. Prior to that time, those words now shown with a J were pronounced as though the J was a Y. So "Joshua," even in English, is proven conclusively to be "Yahshua" when the original Y sound is used. Thus, it is IMPOSSIBLE for "Jesus" to be anything close to the true name, because the "J" sound did not exist when he was alive! Did you get that? The name "Jesus" is proven to be incorrect simply from the fact the word "Jesus" did not exist until only 500 years ago because there was no such thing as a J in the language! This fact alone PROVES "Jesus" is a false name!
Furthermore, as mentioned previously, there is a LOT of powerful and convincing evidence that shows the Greek name for Messiah, Iesous, may be derived from the name of a pagan deity! YES, "JESUS" IS A WORD WHICH MAY DERIVE FROM THE NAME FOR A PAGAN GREEK GOD! IT MAY GIVE HONOR TO A PAGAN DEITY! The aforementioned book, Come Our of Her My People, by C. J. Koster, provides a LOT of evidence of this as well as many other proofs of Christianity's pagan foundations. Of course, few Christians dare investigate these things for fear of what they may discover. Their fears are well founded since they WILL find ample facts proving Constantinian Christianity to be a counterfeit, Babylonian based. A religion that may represent part of Satan's plan to usurp God and establish himself as the recipient of mankind's worship.
Hellooo? Why are preachers intentionally discarding and censoring the true name for Messiah and using a false name that may honor a pagan god in its place?
Let me ask that again. Why are Christian leaders intentionally discarding and censoring the true name for Messiah, (Yahshua) and using a false name instead (Jesus). Worse still, the false name "Jesus" is a name for which very strong evidence exists showing it may honor a pagan god?
Scholars differ regarding the correct name of Messiah. Some say Yeshua is correct. Some say Yahshua is correct, and some say Yahoshua is correct. The fact is no one knows FOR SURE which is correct. HOWEVER, ALL REPUTABLE SCHOLARS AGREE "JESUS" IS MOST CERTAINLY NOT CORRECT.
Anyone that thinks the Jewish parents of the Jewish Messiah that were strong adherents to the Judaic principles and lived in a Jewish contextual setting would give their son a Greek name is lacking in common sense! Seriously! How can anyone be deceived to the point of thinking the HEBREW Messiah would have a GREEK name? Such a thought is preposterous!"
Source: http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message531174/pg1
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene on
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Oh please!!! Ain't none of y'all born of Hebrew blood. I can understand that you want to be in touch with GOD's word closer. Thats fine. However, too many black have a sense of lost identity, and strive to "reclaim" what they lost in slavery. This cannot be reclaimed by claiming someone else's family, but by claiming the family of GOD our FATHER and the LORD JESUS CHRIST. Paul, a REAL Jew from the line of Benjamin, said that he counted his lineage dung compared to the knowledge of CHRIST. He also said there is neither JEW NOR GREEK, for all are one in CHRIST. By your standpoint, Paul is a heretic!
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Permalink Reply by Adrian Lamar West Sr. on
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Just a Question.........
It has been stated that we are not of HEBREW BLOOD, yet in the Teachings on the TRUE VINE, it is taught that we are grafted in........
Grafted into what I ask????????????????
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Permalink Reply by James Pierce on
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Adrian,
That is a great question. We are grafted into the covenant of promise. We are grafted into the family of Israel. The new covenant was not made with Gentiles, but with Hebrews. Gentile people are grafted into this new covenant with its 3 stipulations: law on our hearts to govern our lives, knowing the Lord within the covenant promise, and having our sins forgiven by the blood of Messiah.
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Niv,
While it may be true that the ancient Hebrews were dark, red, and brown... who is to say that the black race is indeed, Hebrew. Really, there's no hard evidence for such things. No one can even trace their lineage back to Hebrew ancestors. We can only ASSUME we are Hebrew.
Hebrews were of a different race than Africans. I see middle eastern people everyday, and they are darker than barack Obama's Father. They have NO african ancestry, rather, the climate they are in darkens their skin. I've seen Arabians that were way darker than me.
So, honestly, color DOES NOT really determine where anyone is from. The proof is in DNA evidence, and none has not been done on the whole African race to make PROOF that we are indeed ancient Hebrews. Its all built on heavy assumptions and speculations. If you have no evidence for this, then its best to not even preach who you think we are. No offense, but Thats how I see it.
Shalom
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Niv,
Yes, several African tribes, including the Lemba, have been proven to be of Levite descent. ONY a few Ethiopians are from Hebrew descent, but scientist have shown that many Ethiopians are of Yemenite descent, rather Hebrew descent.
There's also been talk about Japanese, Chinese, and Korean Hebrews. Its interesting to point out that Hebrew script and Chinese, and Japanese script look VERY similar.
There are Japanese Clans that have practices similar to ancient Hebrews, especially the wearing of the Tzitzit, and some feast days. Man, the real truth is, the 12 tribes of Israel are spread out all over the place, and only Yahweh knows where the majority of them are located.
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Permalink Reply by N'ZI Amani Germain on
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Brothers,
Brother James Pierce said:
1- The «...12 tribes of Israel are spread out all over the place, and only Yahweh knows where the majority of them are located".
I do agree with Brother James Pierce on that point. So please, stop your speculations and your assumptions.
Yes, only our Lord knows who are the 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel who will be sealed.
“ 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000”.
Revelation 7:4-8
So please, stop your speculations and your assumptions.
If you are a true Israelite, you will be sealed. However, if you are a synagogue of satan (Revelation 2:9; 3: 9), then, you will not be sealed.
Indeed, blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. This is the reason why God will send two witnesses to Israel later (Revelation 11:3-14)
Brother James Pierce said again:
2- “…The new covenant was not made with Gentiles, but with Hebrews. Gentile people are grafted into this new covenant with its 3 stipulations…”
Brother, let us see what the Bible truly says.
Indeed, God has chosen Israel. It is so said the Bible. I do not deny this fact.
But, the problem lies in the fact that you have not yet received the revelation of the mystery about which Brother Paul was talking in the passage of Romans 11 that you’ve quoted.
Indeed, Brother Paul said:
"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in..."
Romans 11:25
"...blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in..."
Do you believe this mystery?
I also know that, according to the Holy Scriptures that”…not all who are descended from Israel are Israel (Romans 9:6).
The Bible also declares that only the remnant will be saved (Romans 9:27).
“Isaiah cries out concerning Israel:
"Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the remnant will be saved”
Romans 9:24-27
Indeed, Jesus-Christ did ask His disciples to go towards the lost sheep of Israel (Matthew 10:6) towards which Himself was sent (Matthew 15:24, Acts 13:23).
However, during the time of THE GRACE, Israel is partially hardened with the message of the Gospel, but later all true Israel will be saved. If you are really a true Hebrew Israelite, then you are my brother. Amen!
“…Israel is partially hardened with the message of the Gospel…”
Perhaps some Hebrews are implying since the Savior was Jewish, they themselves are special people in God's sight. In contrast, God wants all to know the following:
“A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God”.
Romans 2:28-29
Hence, in this manner all true Christians are this type of Jew because their hearts have been circumcised by God's Spirit. This is what the greatest example of Christianity ever produced wrote, who also happened to be of Hebrew descent.
Moreover, consider what John the Baptist said to Jewish people in his day who thought they were special because of their nationality:
“But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham”.
Matthew 3:7-9
Today again there is a differentiation to be made between the true Jews, and the synagogue of Satan.
“I know your afflictions and your poverty-yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 2:9
I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars- I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.
Revelation 3:9
“…blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in…”
Do you understand this mystery?
Do you believe that gentiles have also been chosen by the same God?
“Even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25As he says in Hosea: "I will call them 'my people' who are not my people; and I will call her 'my loved one' who is not my loved one,"[a] 26and, "It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' they will be called 'sons of the living God”.
Romans 9:24-27
“…But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy”.
1 Peter 2:9-10
Believers in Christ are children of promise, children of the free woman:
“Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son."[a] 31Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman”.
Galatians 4:28-31
They are God's temple. Amen!
“Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?”
1 Corinthians 3:16
WE ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS.
“ for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise”.
Galatians 3:27-29
All those who are in Jesus Christ, namely Jews and Greeks ARE SAVED BY GRACE, THROUGH FAITH.
“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do”
Ephesians 2: 8-10
Indeed, Brother Paul said:
“For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law”
“What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone." As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame”.
Romans 9:30-33
If you are not in Christ, then this doesn’t concern you!
So, please, stop bothering and troubling gentile believers.
Please, bear this in your mind once for all!
Blessings,
Bro. Germain
www.tagworld.com/srobouay
www.myspace.com/wawesan
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Germain,
If you would have read the first sentence of my response, you would have seen me say that Gentiles would have been grafted in. Reading is fundamental dude. Also, we all agree that the law does not save, but just because thats true, does not not give us the liscense to break the law. We are to obey the Father, and Messiah, and that is done through the law(Deut 6).
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May God enlighten you!
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Niv,
Scripturally speaking, the 12 tribes of Israel are spread out in all the earth. Their descendants are EVERY color. Are you defining "true Hebrews" by color? If so, then thats ok, but to make a doctrine out of who's truly Hebrew, and who is not, especially in this day and age, is futile. People from many nations, tongue, and tribe, whether Germain, African, Korean, etc, may have Hebrew blood. I truly disagree with many Hebrew Israelites that make a fuss out of the fact that African Americans do not recognize their so called true origins. God's people are in every race.
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Permalink Reply by Rev. Eric Culberson Jr. on
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Very well said Mr. Pierce, there was a gentelmen on here a while back who had a chart broke down of each tribe and what people belonged to them Blacks, Native Americans, etc. But a whole lot of people under this thought were going to be left with out salvation.
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The Blind?
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Permalink Reply by Evangelist Altha Fugett on
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How do the deaf refer to HIM? not a facetious question, scripture reference
Mar 9:25
When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
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