Torah vs Prophets vs Yahushua & Gospels vs Paul

[James Pierce]

All of these agree that Torah is still in effect, and we must obey Torah. Why is it that Christianity rejects Torah, when the earliest Church, including the Apostles, kept Torah?

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

Upon visiting many threads here on BPN where the Torah worshipers are bumping heads with Christians, it appears that the Torah worshipers are hung up on OBEYING GOD'S COMMANDMENTS! Forget about grace, forget about Jesus fulfilling the Law, just OBEY, OBEY, OBEY!

So, to the Torah worshipers, are you literally obeying God's commandments to the letter of the Law?

Because if you are, this means you are walking in perfection to every one of God's commandments and I really need to know how you are accomplishing this daily challenge.

[BruthaPharoah]

hebrew 10 this is the law that can not save

[BruthaPharoah]

chaplain harris
1john3:4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Romans 7:7
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

so according to the new testament sin is breaking the law ,paul said he wouldn't of known lusting was wrong except the law said thou shall not covet


Romans 6
1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

and again are you will to throw out Matthew 5:17-19 (King James Version)

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

This is now the 4th or 5th time these same scriptures have been posted to you Brother Watson. I think the Lord is trying to tell you something.

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

To the Torah Worshipers,

I am still asking this question. . . .

. . . . .are you literally obeying God's commandments to the letter of the Law?

Because if you are, this means you are walking in perfection to every one of God's commandments and I really need to know how you are accomplishing this daily challenge.

The reason I am asking this question is because I keep hearing (reading), obey, obey, obey, obey the commandments of God.

Since you are so adamant about obedience to the commandments, it appears to be that you have this obedience thing down to the letter. So, why not share just how you walk in perfection to the commandments of God?

You see, I am so grateful to God for His grace and mercy and for the opportunity through the indwelling Holy Spirit that if I commit a sin, I can ask for His forgiveness, and repent with assurance that He is faithful to forgive me, and move on with Christlike living. This is the beauty of His agape love. I do not have the stress of having to struggle with trying to obey every specific law (or commandment), knowing that as long as I make every effort to obey the 2 commandments given by Jesus in the NT, I will have obeyed all of the 10 Commandments of the OT. I am also aware that if I break one commandment, I have broken all of the commandments. But once again, if I confess my wrongs to Jesus and ask for His forgiveness and repent from those wrongs, He is faithful to forgive me and I can move forward in my living for Christ.

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

To the God of Israel worshipers you mean. We don't worship the Torah. We follow the Torah, minus the animal sacrifice.

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

@ Sister Harris

Exodus 20:1-17 And God spake all these words, saying, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

There are the commandments. These seed eternal life right? To do anything you have to learn about it right?

The Lord said have no graven images before him. You must find out what a graven image is, and not deal with it. Then the Lord said Have no other Gods before him. or deal in idolatry. You must find out what idols are, and don't serve them, or have them. the Lord says don't take his name in vain. What are his names? Find out, and don't take them in vain. I would just focus on Jesus, don't take that name in vain or Yeshua if you deal with the Hebrew. He said keep my Sabbath holy, have a holy convocation, and don't do work. So you have to try to get your job to not let you work on the LOrd's Sabbath, but first find out when the Lord's Sabbath is, he tells you, but people have doubts. Then you must not kill, steal, lie, commit adultery, or covet, and honor your mother and father. Those commandments are not hard, but once you start doing them, you will want to do his other laws, like the Dietary Law, the Feasts of the Lord, and the cleanliness laws. Start with the commandments, and go from there.

[BruthaPharoah]

sista harris
i must conceed you are not reading the post at all............
and is in error to believe you can just keep killing Yahshua over and over again

[Mark H. Stevens, Th.D]

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God...For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus...which God prepared beforehand..(Eph2:8,10)
More often than not in Scripture, when the term "God" is written, the reference is to "God the FATHER." Salvation comes about because of the work of God, the FATHER.
Salvation is the "wisdom" of the Father (1Cor1:21), with a message which seems "foolish" to the world. It is the "power" of God.(1Cor1:18) The Father is "pleased" [He WANTS] to give us good things.(Lk12:32)
It was the Father's love which sent Jesus. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. (Jn3:16-17)
While God does not wish to condemn us (2Pt3:9), He is the one before Whom we stand at judgment, as the One Who sits on the throne.(Rev4:2,20:11)
Jesus said of the Father, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.(Jn6:44) So, while the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world (1Jn4:14), we do not even come to the Son in repentant faith without the Father "drawing" us. Tugging, coaxing (Jer25:4,44:4), putting up hedges before our wayward paths. (Hos2:6) Whatever His wisdom knows is required to get us to look to His Son.
Once we have believed, our service is to the Father. "If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God. If anyone ministers, let him do it as with the ability which God supplies, that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belong the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen."(1Pt4:11) We are to "glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." (Rom15:6)
Even the Son, Jesus, glorifies the Father.(Jn13:32) He said, "And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him." (Jn8:29) And when He (Jesus) was raised, He went and sat down at the "right hand of the Majesty on high."(Heb1:3) The person occupying the throne is of greater stature than the one who is at his "right hand." Paul puts it this way, "I want you to know that the head of very man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God."(1Cor11:3) And when God's wrath is about to be poured out upon the world, the Father is the One "on the throne" and Jesus comes as the "lamb" to take the scroll. "Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne." (Rev5:7)
And while Jesus has been given authority, and will rule the nations with a "rod of iron" ...when He is treading out the winepress of wrath, it is the wrath of "Almighty God."(Rev19:15) And while He has been given the title "King of kings and Lord of lords" (19:16) This authority having been given to Him by the Father (Heb1:8-9,13), He ultimately will "return" everything back to the Father. "Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all." (1Cor15:28)
However, as God said to Moses, "You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live." (Ex33:20) ...because, God is a "consuming fire." (Deu4:24)
So, how can there be communication between God and man? This is where Jesus comes into the picture. "Immanuel, God with us."(Mt1:23,Is7:14) Jesus said, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father."(Jn14:9) Jesus is the "express image" of His [God's] person. (Heb1:3) He provides the mediation, "For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus" (1Tm2:5) While God is so awesome that the "earth and heaven fled away"(Rev20:11), Jesus came in the form as a man.(Phil2:8) Something that mere man could understand. An "equivalent substitute" as a propitiation for our sin...to satisfy God's requirement of "death for sin."(1Jn2:2)
Having redeemed us by His own blood, He is now seated at God's "right hand...making intercession for us."(Rom8:34,Heb7:25) As God would condemn the sinner, the Son, sitting at His right hand, says, 'I paid for him. He is righteous.' After all God "made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."(2Cor5:21) And if, as His children, we slip up and stumble, Jesus is right there, advocating our cause.(1Jn2:1) Because of Jesus, God does not see the Believer as a "sinner" but as "righteous." Righteousness is "imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead."(Rom4:24)

[Mark H. Stevens, Th.D]

Romans 14:5 "One man esteemeth one day above another: another
esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his
own mind."

Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in
drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the
sabbath [days]:" These are both interesting Scriptures, in face of
the fact that, the Jews celebrate Saturday as their Sabbath, and the
Christians celebrate Sunday as the Lord's day or first fruits. We are
told to be fully persuaded that what we are doing is pleasing to God.
We are to celebrate with a clear conscience. Whatever day you esteem,
do it as unto the Lord.

Romans 14:6 "He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the
Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not
regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God
thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth
God thanks."

God is not so interested in the technicality of what day we
celebrate as He is in the fact that we have chosen an individual day
and set it aside to worship in. God wants our heart to be in
worshipping Him. We know that Jesus said, that the sabbath was made
for man and not man for the sabbath. Mark 2:27 "And he said unto
them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:" You
see from this it is not the day that is important, but the fact that
we choose to worship God one day a week.