Questions for the Hebrew Israelite Brethren and Sisteren...

[newview]

Why are you guys of the Hebrew Israelite denomination so caught up in the flesh - OT, OT, OT. Have you guys ever been effected by that which is spiritual?

Do miracles ever happen amongst your congregants - like other wordly happenings - things that you can't explain and yet don't contradict the word of God?

Do you guys ever speak in tongues under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost? and if so Have they been interpretated and if so - what were a few of the messages?

Does the Lord ever give y'all visions? Daytime visions?

When there is sick among you - has your elders been called to anoint the sick with oil and pray for them and you see them miraculously healed?

Are there any-any-any white people in any of your congregations? or have there ever been any at one time but are now gone?

Do you guys believe in the resurrection of the dead?

Do you sing songs? If so - name at least 5.

Do you dance for joy in the Lord?

Are there any in your congregations who prophesy on things to come? - if so - please share a few.

When I read yall posts I often wonder if there is any joy and anything spiritual going on in your assemblies. It does not seem so, but there could be alot going on and you guys are just not sharing it with us.
And if your goal is to convert - you really need to step out and say something that the board can know or at least surmise that the God of Heaven steps out of Eternity and deals with your group(s).
I dont want it to seem that I am asking for a sign but I guess I am because the early church brought with their doctrine power and demonstration.

Otherwise - to me at least - it seems that what you brothers are sharing is stagnant.
And I say that out of love. I really enjoy scrapping with you guys over many of the subjects but when it gets down to business - outside of the OT - there is a dead pool effect going on.

Besides striving about the Law - share with the board how God deals with you guys mightily.

In Peace

[James Pierce]

Newview,

In actuality, those who are attach to Israel, and keeping the Torah, are Israelites.

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

Bro. James

Yeshua became the curse of the Torah for us. We are under grace now. There's no condemnation to those who are in Yeshua. In order for grace to be a reality, then there must be a Torah in effect.

1. Yeshua became the curse of the Torah for us. STOP!

Please provide scripture that makes this statement.

2. In order for grace to be a reality, then there must be a Torah in effect. STOPI

Jesus' death, burial and resurrection ushered in God's grace which released us from having to keep the Laws. There is nothing wrong with studying the OT because this is our foundation, but we are no longer required to keep the Laws as it was mandated during those times because in doing so would mean to suffer the penalties for breaking the Laws, which meant death.

Bottom line . . .if you have to keep the Laws, you must suffer the penalty for breaking the Laws. If you accept the truth that we are under grace, then you must accept the truth that we are no longer required to keep the Laws as was originally mandated with the penalty phase. You cannot be under grace and keep the Laws at the same time.

Peace in Yeshua

[Zealot X]

Pat, if you do not need to keep the law then you would not have any further need for grace. We would no longer be under grace if there is no law for us to break.

The commandments Yeshua taught were the original commandments of YHWH. It is by breaking THOSE commandments that we deserve death. Why? Let's put it in better perspective. The law is love. When we hate each other, sin lieth at the door. In other words we become Cain and we kill our brother. That is a cycle of death. When you sin you literally begin a cycle that results in death. It may not be your death that you directly stimulate. It may be someone else that dies and someone else may become the catalyst or fuel for whatever ends your life.

Take the example of drunk driver. Why did this person get drunk in the first place? Even before drunk driving ever killed anyone it was already against YHWH's law to get drunk. Why? It's because the CONSEQUENCES for getting drunk are too often bad. It could start arguments, fights, I heard this reformed ex-con talk about how he fell back into his old life because after he got his pay check he was propositioned by a prostitute who led him to get crack, they got high, and because of the cravings (demons) he robbed a bank for the first time in his life. What started this was temptation but he would not have done everything he did if he wasn't high as a kite. But this is the power of the law. WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN when we do things. It is often only until something bad happens that people start thinking "gee maybe I shouldn't drink." YOU THINK?! We do this with everything and because its what people want to do we permit everything to be done. YHWH already knows the consequences. And now that we're mixing all kinds of temptations and sin together we are actively working to destroy ourselves in the most blissful way possible.

Now if this ex-con asks G-d for forgiveness he WILL get it. But what about the consequences of his actions? There is NOTHING that will stop a bullet if he had actually shot someone.

Please understand that we are creators. We create good and evil. We want to be forgiven for turning G-d's creation into hell, but that does not change the fact that it is still being turned into hell because of the consequences WE CREATE.

See people are getting confused with grace and forgiveness. We have sinned against G-d by sinning. But that is not where sin stops. YHWH wants us to STOP sinning, STOP creating evil. STOP destroying ourselves, STOP making people want to kill us to protect themselves from us, STOP causing people to grow up in poverty, STOP limiting real justice to only the rich, STOP making orphans and widows, STOP making EVERY SITUATION in which people's sweat, their blood, and their tears cry out to YHWH just as Abel's blood cried out. YHWH is willing to forgive us ONLY IF we are willing to stop doing all the wickedness and evil that transforms paradise into hell. The NT makes it clear that nothing will be allowed in the new kingdom that creates the kind of sin-pollution I just talked about. So read this and tell me how long we can ignore the law.

Matthew 13:41 - The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

If you are someone who has given up on being righteous then you cannot be allowed to be there. CANNOT be. Because YHWH will not allow this world to be defiled again the way it has been. And no one can convince me that the word "iniquity" used in Matthew 13 only applies to some unknown future set of laws that carry a different definition of sin than how YHWH identified sin when he gave the law to Moses.

Please consider ALL THINGS, not just how you are affected by the law or its penalties. Focusing on ones own self will cause you to miss the bigger picture and what is necessary to live in a perfect environment. If ALL YOU WANT is to be forgiven then you are asking to live in a world of sin where sin is tolerated. If that is all you want then that is where you already live. There are still consequences. But you don't see YHWH striking anyone dead where they stand. You don't see the ground opening up to gobble up some selfish couple. You don't hear of any prophets saying that YHWH will destroy your city. This world is being destroyed BY this world. Do you want to live here forever? There is a better way. But it requires each one of us to change and conform to something better. That is the path of righteousness. If you are distracted from this path it will only be because your desire to STAY THE SAME outweighs your desire to live in a better world. Think about it and decide what's best for you and your family and your community and your nation and your world. I will not always be here to provoke you towards righteousness. You need to start provoking yourself and others.

The status quo isn't saving anybody. Yeshua isn't going to save anybody that doesn't want to be saved from the status quo of sin. If you want to be saved (from sin) you actually have to stop sinning. I'm sorry but there is really no other way.


shalom

[Eccl. 12:13]

The reason the bro. is still alive, as is the case for ALL of us, is because of this;

Heb.4
[14] Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Christ is doing His job as OUR High Priest, and asking God the Father everyday to forgive us. Why? Because we still sin. And sin is breaking God's laws and commandments.

.That is why we ALL are still alive today?

.

[newview]

...Christ is doing His job as OUR High Priest, and asking God the Father everyday to forgive us. Why? Because we still sin. And sin is breaking God's laws and commandments...

Then what is all the debating about?
I thought you guys kept the LAW and did not sin like us ever sinning Christians.
This is perplexing.

[Zealot X]

Pat,

Please read the thread I made about Galations. I think you are missing a very important historical component; the absence of which has been used to confuse you.

Before the time of Yeshua people kept the law. They ALSO sacrificed which is what covered them when they made MISTAKES. The sacrifice never did away with the requirement to be righteous. It only made up for when they messed up, giving them the chance to change and do better. This is why Yeshua preached repentence and said that he didn't come for the righteous but to call sinners to repentance.

Mark 2:17 - When Yeshua heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

People are telling you that the law was done away with because they do not understand what law was being enforced at THAT TIME. At that time it was not solely the commandments of G-d that were being done and taught. If it was then you'd all be right and we could go into a little corner somewhere, sit down, and shut up. The reality is, and what history will show, is that the pharisees had their own corrupt version of the law which they tacked on their own rules and taught THEIR commandments as doctrine.

Galatians 1:14 - And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

The laws that were given to Moses were added to by a bunch of other garbage that was piled on to make the Jews look all pious and holy. No one could do all that crap so many stopped trying to follow the law COMPLETELY. When Yeshua came on the scene he battled the pharisees and let them know that they sat in Moses's seat but do not do as Moses commanded. In other words, the pharisees were using the authority of Moses in order to enforce their own rule of law. And the whole time they were in the pockets of the Romans. They had no interest in the messiah. They already had their reward. Yeshua pretty much ignored their laws and kept the commandments of YHWH.

We are to follow in his footsteps. He never said that he kept the commandments so that you don't have to. We still have to. If we don't even try that is wickedness. If we stumble and fall sometimes that's okay. That's why there is forgiveness. But there is nothing biblical about casting away the law of YHWH.


shalom

[Chaplain Pat Harris]

Will do ZealotX and will get back to you soon.

[newview]

Yeah, Zealot - thats what I always thought: the Laws of God were added to. And Jesus came along and cut through the excess.

[Rebekah]

i have a question for the Sunday goers....i have asked this b4 but have gotten no answer. if we have no laws and we "are under grace" ....what do your consider sin? and also if we are forgiven for everything ~past and present~ ..then what will we be judged for? what is the point of judgment if we are already forgiven?

[Rebekah]

and yes...there is singing for the Lord in church. but much much more Bible reading and learning.

[newview]

Sometimes we Christians do take the grace of God for granted. And go buck wild in our liberty.

What do you think about James instructions to the Gentiles that were being bother by the Judaizing believers? - that they had to keep to no more than basically (Noachian) laws: Stay away from Idolatry, Sexual immorality and Eating strangled animals or blood.

I know that Abraham was saved by his faith - just as we are saved by our faith and Abraham was before Moses and his ordinances. So I am assuming Abraham kept to whatever laws that were before God gave Moses the Law on Mt Sinai. I really dont know - I am just ruminating.

[James Pierce]

Newview,

James did not agree with Noachide laws in Acts 15. Read verse 21.