Question for the Hebrew Israelites

[Rev. Eric Culberson Jr.]

Do you still observe the passover? And if so why??

[Apostle Robert L. Mitchell III]

I was not and am not offended. I am an intellectual. I am long winded at times though. But I see already that you have a hard time with my people. Daniel is a learned Rabbi also and stated some things to you that you said he answered like I, and he did, but we are a passionate people so its not about being brody. I would not ask some of the questions in such detail about ones personal life though. If someone shares, take it at face value.

And yes I took some things personal but i didn't get mad or irritated I let you know that another would. I normally do not respond nor talk much. I am Like unto the Naviim of Old, Navi(prophet). I am a non conformist. I am more like an Orthadox Jew. My only concern is Yahweh and His Will.

I do not think that a brother eating meat should be asking these types of questions. they do not GLORIFY the LORD in my opinion. words can be distorted here. We understand more in face to face convo and emotion.

My concern is are we learning here or just debating?

[Rev. Eric Culberson Jr.]

My friend I appreciate your response, I too can be passionate but I try very hard not to let my passion come off as being rude or very critical of a person. I was always taught that the only dumb question is the one not asked (not always true but for the most part has weight). Maybe it is the California in me that sees nothing wrong with trying to find out about another person, and the only way to do that is by asking questions. If I offended you by asking about your personal life let me now apologize that was not my intent, you wee the first person that said they could trace there family all the way back to a specific tribe I found it very interesting and just wanted to know a littel more about it. Maybe I should have sent you a private message, and not questioned you openly. I hope this better helps you to understand my point in asking the question.

As far as the learning or debating I hope we are in a position of learning through debating (if that makes sense) when I here a lot of different view point from not only yourself but the others that have posted it causes me to go and check out what it is that your saying. I dont debate (dang got to find a different word because that one sounds so wrong) to try and prove me right and you wrong, because by now I have realized that you are going to stand on what you believe to be true and so will I. I conversate and throw things out there so that I can know what is being said and taught across the globe so interestinly enough I am learning. But lastly I believe you are right if our conversation was to be had in a face to face setting we would better be able to interpret the emotion being used typing can sometimes be misinterpreted. I hope you and I can leave this conversation with a better understanding.
Peace

[Rev. Eric Culberson Jr.]

O and as far as what Rabbi Daniel wrote if calling a person Bub and spiritual midget is considered okay with you guys then fine now I know. But trying to insult someone to futher your cause is not okay with me.

[HOPE - Psalm 43:5]

Consider the discussion forums a "Mars Hill" if you will. (smile)

[Anna]

Have you ever studied this question, and discovered what was done in the "early church". Here are two references:


"That the observance of the Sabbath was not confined to Jewish converts, the learned Gieseler explicitly testifies: "While the Jewish Christians of Palestine retained the entire Mosaic Law, and consequently the Jewish festivals, the Gentile Christians observed also the Sabbath and the Passover (I Corinthians 5:6, 8), with the reference to the last scenes of Jesus' life, but without Jewish superstition." -- Eccl., Vol. 1, chap. 2, sec. 30.

"While the Christians of Palestine, who kept the whole Jewish Law, celebrated of course all the Jewish festivals, the heathen converts observed only the Sabbath, and, in remembrance of closing scenes of our Savior's life, the Passover, though without the Jewish superstitions." -- Church History, Apostolic Age to A.D. 70, Sec. 29; Lewis Hist. S. & S., page 135.

[Anna]

Bro Eric Culbertson:

If you don't keep Passover you must be keeping Easter. If so WHY?

Where is the name Easter in the Greek text of the NT , and where are the practice of the Apostles keeping Easter found in the Bible?

Also, how do you arrive at the calendar date for keeping Easter?

Shoudn't you know the history of any religious doctrine/practice BEFORE you teach or promote it?

Could it be that you are promoting something that is not Biblical? Or is the Bible, primarily the words of the Prophets, Apostles, primarily Jesus Himself, the source of your faith and practices that you call Christian?

If you cannot answer these questions, could it be that you are simply following the commandments and doctrines of men which Jesus says constitutes only "vain worship"?

P.S. I am not a "Hebrew Israelite".
There is no Biblical validity in the term "Hebrew Israelite". It is a name of recent origin created by blacks to differentiate themselves from Whites of the same Messianic faith.

[Rev. Eric Culberson Jr.]

Sorry Anna no "T" in my name.

[Anna]

Bro Culberson:

Did you know that in the early Church ALL CHRISTIANS KEPT PASSOVER on the 14th day of Nisan?
That Easter is an outgrowth of the Council of Nisan wherein the observance of Passover is forbidden, by the Pope in Rome under threat of excommunication?
Here is an article for your research as you seek to "prove all things, hold fast to that which is good":

The Quartodeciman Controversy: From Passover To Easter

The history behind the establishment of Easter as a principal festival within the church is an example of the inculturation of Judeo-Christian and pagan celebrations.

The Judeo-Christian Passover became fused with pagan fertility worship to create a new festival celebrating the resurrection of Christ. This was observed at a different time from the Passover. Known as the Quartodeciman controversy, the debate over when this celebration concerning Christ should be observed reverberated across the empire through the second, third and fourth centuries. Eventually it was established by the Council of Nicea in A.D. 325 and reinforced at the Synod of Antioch in A.D. 341. The Synod called for the excommunication of any who resisted the new Easter observance. Those who resisted were forced to move beyond the reach of the empire.

A STATEMENT AGAINST JUDAISM

The name Quartodeciman (“fourteenth” in Latin) derives from the fact that elements within the church, especially in Asia Minor, wished to honor Christ's death as the early church had done, according to Jewish reckoning on the 14th of Nisan—the same date as the Jewish Passover. Others, however, led by the church at Rome, wanted to celebrate Christ's resurrection at Easter, a wholly artificial date which was the Sunday following the first new moon in the new year (under the Julian Calendar, the New Year began at the vernal equinox, or March 25). Hence it was a debate about the 14th. The force of the argument is perhaps best seen in Constantine's own words in heralding the changes established by the Council:

“It seemed to every one a most unworthy thing that we should follow the custom of the Jews in the celebration of this most holy solemnity, who polluted wretches! having stained their hands with a nefarious crime, are justly blinded in their minds. It is fit, therefore, that, rejecting the practice of this people, we should perpetuate to all future ages the celebration of this rite, in a more legitimate order, which we have kept from the first day of our Lord's passion even to the present times. Let us have nothing in common with the most hostile rabble of the Jews. We have received another method from the Saviour” (Isaac Boyle, Historical View of the Council of Nice with a Translation of Documents, J.B. Lippincott & Co., Philadelphia, 1879, p. 52).

Constantine appears to have been misinformed about the origins of Easter. The intensity of the debate that led to the Council of Nicea, and the fact that the Council was called by Constantine in the first instance, indicates that the simplicity of the emperor's pronouncement obfuscated the real issues.

Eusebius, bishop of Caesarea, who recorded the events of the Council of Nicea for us in his Ecclesiastical History, establishes the first pretext for changing the keeping of the Passover. He records the testimony of Irenaeus, a bishop of Lyon in the late second century, who stated that the start of the controversy was in the days of Xystus (c. A.D. 115–125), from whose days the observance of the 14th was no longer followed in the West (Ecclesiastical History, 5.24).

FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCES

Yet Pius, a successor to the bishopric of Rome, claimed in A.D. 147 that his brother Hermes had received instruction from an angel who commanded that the event should be kept on “the Lord's Day” and not on the 14th (Joseph Bingham, The Antiquities of the Christian Church, R. Bingham, ed., Oxford University Press, 1855, p. 302).

That the church in the second century had to resort to such claims for authenticity of its teachings, and not to apostolic authority, is a clear indication that this was a departure from what had been received.

In fact, while Easter is always on a Sunday, the 14th of Nisan may be on a Monday, Wednesday, Friday or Saturday, but never on a Sunday.

Constantine's ruling also glossed over another important aspect. The 14th was the memorial of Christ's death, whereas those advocating what we know as Easter were focused on His resurrection. Hence a major theological divide existed between the two groups of adherents. The Quartodecimans, in holding to the memorial of death, were maintaining a very Hebraic pattern. It exists to this day in the remembrance of the death of an individual, and is celebrated with a Yahrzeit.

Following the fall of Jerusalem, those Christians in Asia Minor claimed to follow the apostolic teaching, especially relating to the Passover. Christians based in Rome, however, began to celebrate Easter.

Polycarp, a disciple of the apostle John, traveled to Rome in A.D. 159 in an effort to seek harmony between the two schools of thought, but without success. His successor, Polycrates, claimed to be the eighth in a succession of bishops in Asia Minor, dating from the time of the apostles, who had kept the 14th as the time to recognize the death of Jesus Christ (Ecclesiastical History, 5.24). The defenders of the 14th constantly claimed apostolic instruction. The church in the West could claim none.

Melito of Sardis, a writer of the late second century, also contended for the Passover on the 14th as an event to celebrate the death of Jesus Christ. His sermon on the Passover goes further than the historical records we have of Polycarp and Polycrates. In his homily, he makes the connection between the death of Christ as the Passover Lamb and the need for Christians to put leaven (yeast) out of their lives—leaven being a symbol of sin. This echoes the writings of the apostle Paul to the church at Corinth (1 Corinthians 5:7–8). It also shows an understanding on the part of Melito of the sequence of the festivals established in Leviticus and observed by the Jews to this day. It highlights the relationship of the Passover to the other festivals—a relationship that was lost to the church by its newly developed focus on the resurrection.

At the start of the fifth century, Epiphanius, another church historian writing some 50 years after Eusebius, recorded that the Quartodecimans were observers of “the Johannean tradition [i.e., of the apostle John] which for a long time was prevalent in Asia Minor” (C.J. Hefele, A History of the Christian Councils, Clark, Edinburgh, 1896, vol. 1, p. 334).

So the festival changed from one that had deep roots in the Old Testament and Jewish practice dealing with death, to one associated with resurrection, to which the name Easter relates. No account exists in either the Old or the New Testament instructing such a change in observance. The concept of a crucifixion was, as the apostle Paul stated, difficult for the pagans. For a son of God to be treated as a common criminal did not endear the religion to the masses. A resurrection, although it created ambiguities for ideas of the afterlife, was much easier to accept.

[Anna]

Passover and Easter

The word "easter" appears nowhere in the early bible, and its use in later translations is a mistranslation or substitution of the Greek word pascha ("passover"). Easter was established later in church history by the Roman Catholic Church, which does not claim these days as biblical, but rather that the Church had the authority to establish them.[12] The church in Rome had begun to distance itself from relating the death of Jesus Christ to the Jewish Passover and instead began to time the celebration of the Resurrection of Jesus to coincide with the pagan rites of Attis. That the early Church continued to keep Passover as a memorial to the death of Jesus Christ on the 14th of Nisan is confirmed by the writers of the second century. Polycarp, a disciple of John the apostle, travelled to Rome to try to persuade the bishop of Rome to observe the 14th of Nisan as opposed to celebrating a feast of the resurrection several days later. Polycrates later in the 2nd century also contended with the Roman church in favor of the 14th of the first month, Jewish calendar. This controversy became known in Church History as the "Quartodeciman controversy."[13]

At the end of the second century, Victor, the bishop of Rome began to threaten other Church leaders in an attempt to get them to abandon Passover completely in favor of the Roman Easter celebration. Polycrates, the bishop of Ephesus, wrote to Victor:

We for our part keep the day [14th of Nisan = Passover] scrupulously, without addition or subtraction. For in Asia great luminaries sleep who shall rise again on the day of the Lord's advent, when He is coming with glory from heaven and shall search out all His saints – such as Philip... there is John, who lent back on the Lord's breast… there is Polycarp, bishop and martyr...

***All these kept the fourteenth day of the month as the beginning of the Paschal Festival [Passover], in accordance with the Gospel, not deviating in the least but following the rule of the Faith.***

Last of all, I too, Polycrates, the least of you a... and my family has always kept the day when the people put away the leaven [Feast of Unleavened Bread]. So I, my friends, after spending sixty-five years in the Lord's service and conversing with Christians from all parts of the world, and going carefully through all Holy Scripture, and not scared of threats. Better people than I have said: "We must obey God rather than men".[14]

[Anna]

Bro Culberson:

Things have been quiet here for a couple of days. I hope you have had time to read and research what I have posted about the celebration of Nisan 14, by the early believers, and how the Gentile church eventually gained po wer and virtually erased all the Hebraic/Biblical celebrations and substituted pagan ones instead.

After you finish reading my messages, I would like to hear from you, as well as others who have previously celebrated Easter, what you plan on celebrating this year, around the anniversary of our Messiah's death and resurrection.

Please provide the scriptures to support your responses.

[N'ZI Amani Germain]

Dear sister Anna!

I fully agree with brother Eric Culberson Jr.

This is the reason why I want to provide a scripture to support in advance his response:


"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths".

2 Timothy 4:3-4

Blessings,

Bro. Germain

www.tagworld.com/srobouay
www.myspace.com/wawesan

[Anna]

Bro Germain
Since there are so many days between responses, and other blogs we are responding to, if you post that you agree or disagree with someone, i.e, Eric, please state specifically what those things were.

I am still awaiting your responses for why you keep Easter, with your scriptural references.