Whats you thought on the pay for Musicians

[DR.Marietta Brown]

Do you think Musicians are paid to much for there services. Do you think they should be held accountable to a local Pastors.

[James L. Brown]

I am a Musician and I was reading alot of the post in this blog, and i agree and disagree with some comments, but that is neither her or there, but I just wanted to put my perspective on this subject. Firstly- musicians have been getting paid from even before I was born and to make it seem as if musician's are trying to bleed the church dry is alittle overstated to me, the problem for some of us, genuinely honest and dedicated musicians is that some pastors and churches try to run a musician ragged and put so many demands on their time with nothing in return..(benefits, time off, sick pay, bonus, heck even health care would be a start) that musicians as some of you say try to get what they can get because the church is unwilling to invest in them spritually, musicially, and yes financially. If we miss even one service in most cases we are getting docked, but if the church has last minute fellowships..be it revivals, conferences and the sort..they just tack on what ever they want us to do with the expectation that we are to just avail ourselves at their every beck and call, which in most cases has an adverse affect on our other jobs or income making potential, atleast for me I'm not trying to get rich off the the church but hey..if you're going to dominate my time then I want to be compensated for it. right is right. My belief as to why some musicians leave churches is that they feel the church is trying to take advantage of them, some churches don't even take out taxes. Alot of times when musicians go to churches to play, it's like they are the enemy instead of being looked upon as a asset to the ministry. We didn't create this war on the salary situation, but I think it's pretty interesting how you can play at a church and the minute you leave that church...they are able to pay the next musician a salary that makes your previous salary seem irrelevant. I may get in trouble for saying this but if you're musician is firstly annointed to play, skillful in service and committed to the vision of the Pastor and the church, and able to lead by Godly example in walk and deed, then I say you do what you can to make sure you hang on to them, good help is definitely hard to come by these days, and even harder is finding churches that recognize good help when they have it. We all fall short on some level, but I as a musician would like to suggest to some of you Pastors that you dialog more with your staff and find out they're needs as christians also, because some of us are truly lost when it comes to things that deal with the spiritual aspect of Worship, I have seen some things that truly need to be addressed in the body of Christ and the music ministry as a whole. In closing I will say that any one willing to invest in a good investment will surely reap a good return eventually, please mam, please sir send your musicians to clinics or workshops, or even seminary's if possible, keep your instruments in good playing condition, have a adequate sound system, meet with your musicians to see what you can do to help they're ministry run smoother or better, be involved-(don't send other people-you come and see about it..it means more than you'll ever realize..to know that you care enough to see about it yourself) we are not all bad and money hungry, we just want equal treatment just like you desire for your gifting and services. God bless

[Minister Paul Youngblood]

Bro.James....You have said well in your reply to this discussion.I am glad that we are getting input from other Ministers of Music,and other musicians.The only way we will grow from this suitation,is that we begin to talk....and I mean on a national level to help solve these problems.From a Biblical perspective,Jesus tells us that a house divided against itself cannot stand,and it seems to me we are living in a divided "house".It makes no sense to me overall why churches won't pay musicians....and I saw your other post Dr.Brown about paying Pastors......and I believe that any and every Pastor should be paid.Now...we know in the real world it does not always happen,but the mechanism should be put in place to get it done...because I have no problem saying that I would probaly not pastor a church if I was not going to be paid...and I know what people are going to say...about God will provide....and He'll make a way........I've heard all of that for years,and it is true...I am a living witness that He will,but the problem is not with God...it's with people,and I know for a fact that congregations will try to get away with doing what they are suppose to do if they can...and I'm not talking about having chicken and fish frys,and selling cakes and pies to raise money.....the one thing that they don't want to do,is do what the Bible says do...and that is Tithing!!!My late father was a deacon and Chairman of the Deacon Board for over 50 years,and if you really wanted to get him upset.....ask him to sell something....that's when he would hit the roof,because he believed in tithing.In many cities,churches have people standing on street corners begging "unsaved"folks for money,solicting and begging because you have lazy folk who won't trust God and give one dime out of every dollar....God gives you 90%and all he needs to keep the church running is 10%.When people start giving......out of what God has given them....then you won't have a problem paying a Pastor or a musician.Congregations are still singing that same ole song and dance about..."it's only a faithful few of us"and "we small"but everything that gets done in most churches starts little and grows.Members need to get up off of that "we poor"mentality and start operating in faith and blessings will follow.Most congregations,big and small,afford what they WANT to afford.That $300.00 suit that you bought to try and impress somebody?????could have been used toward paying a Pastor.........that $300.00 hat that is sitting on some sister's head with the $200.00 weave????,could have been used to help pay a musician that you want to run all over God's Creation,every time the church goes out(Dr.Brown..I am not directing this toward you,)see,these are the things that are killing us...we all flash and no substance..........but as soon as you don't have a musician,that you say you can't pay???just take a look out over the congregation on Sunday morning,and you will see the dollars that are spent on other "things"Solomon said that "money answereth all things"-Be Blessed

[DR.Marietta Brown]

You have some good points and some we dont agree with. The Senior Pastors are over worked, have no decent pay in many cases, no vacation or Insurance or benefits. They are the ones the Parishoners try to run them around the clock calls, pray and no respect for there time or there family. and over work. them .Pastors dont charge overtime to pray for you, counsel you ,visit you and your family when they are sick, bury family members.They dont have overtime , days off and all you are referring to. Suppose the Pastors charged for all of there services and abuse of there time from the congregation. Most times the Pastor has to give there Salary back when there is financial needs.Yes some Pastors have good salaries but when you add it up and the hours they work it is very low.pay for non stop work.

[DR.Marietta Brown]

Okay we will. Lets continue to discuss..

[DR.Marietta Brown]

Minister Youngblood, glad to see you still responding . Its great to read all the different views.Lets keep the discussion.Thanks be blessed

[DR.Marietta Brown]

Have not heard comments lately. Lets hear your comments or thoughts.

[DR.Marietta Brown]

Overseer Dr. Walker, great points. We feel the same in Our MInistry , we will not have a Musician play for us ,unless they come in be a sheep, a member of our Church be saved and submit to God, the Pastor and the House Of God. We have enjoyed a many CDS , during praise and worship. The rules are the same for me , the Pastor and all members and Musicians, the Word of God are the rules we abide by.

[Minister Jimmy L. Bagwell]

Now as I said before I am a musician and the church I attend pays$150.00 a week for everything, 3 services on Sunday and anyhting that come up during week. When I was hired by the pastor the last thing that came up was money and the Pastor not me bought the subject up and told me they could only pay $125.00 and as the church grew they would be able to do more. I told him I had no problem for this is where God wanted to plant me to grow in him. I have been there 6 years and now making $150.00 a week and I am still happy and satified with everything.
I basically give my money back to the church inn tithes, offering and gifts on special days such as Pastor's Anniversary, Sweetheart's day(for Pastor's Wife) and other functions in the church. I am a very liberal giver as a musician and minister and I expect the members of my Music Ministry to be as well. If they stop paying me today I would stay because I have been planted by God to grow and learn. How many musicians would say the same????? But Pastors please stop blaming the ups and downs of your service on the musicians and the music for the music does not set the atmossphere but Prayer does. before we go into any service we all pray and seek God and invite him into the service and if he comes in before the service then things will flow. I have watched God move so in our services that our Pastor and other Elders have indicated to me not to play but just worship and songs would come from the Praise team that needed no music and I didn't play but just joined in the Praise and Worship. Another thing as a musician I find we can't join into the Praise and Worship because we have to play and when prayer is called we can't get in the prayer because we have to play. We need to be ministyered to as well. What my Pastor and Elders do is they set aside a day that they pray just for me and the Music Ministry. The church has set days that we just pray for one-thing only. Every Friday we come together corporately as a church body and pray for families and children.

[Bishop Matthew E. Bradby, II]

My friend, GOD bless you! You are a great example of a soldier for Christ! I wish many could be in the position of pastors and understand the trials, tribulation and pains of ministry! People come to church for many things and I feel that every abled body Christian should use what they have to promote ministry, worship and to help the less fortunate! I wish we had as you grow musicians here and in other places! I have encouraged and even helped music ministries to get their talents recorded and to become real minister as opposed to hired hands! Their are many venues to make money but many doors do open when we are commented to the cause! Keep up the good work!!!

[DR.Marietta Brown]

Minister Bagwell, Thanks for your comments.We believe in the power of prayer before being released in Ministry I served two Pastors for 24 years with 13 years serving as an Intercessor..We believe in the power of prayer. Our church prays seven days per week, 5.00 AM, 12.00 noon, 7.00 PM and 11.00 PM. We also have Intercessors on the altar 7 nights per week , 365 days per year since 2003 to now, even tonight , we have the Intercessory team on the altar from 11.000 Am to 5.00 Am, seven days per week even Holidays. We have men, , yes men and women on the altar with the teams. We truly pray an see the Word of God come to pass.We have never had but one death in 11 years in our Church and only three people hospitalized for a couple of days that recieved miracles. God is a great God and worthy of all praise and God and God alone gets all glory and praise and honor.You should recieve all the pay a Church can pay you. Your cases is different you have sowed and given much to that Ministry.be blessed Great Man Of God.

[je]

It is very interesting that this point comes up a WHOLE lot when the ministers feel as though the musicians are getting paid close to what they are getting or possibly more.

It's all good when the service is going forth and the musician is there before service starts, playing through 10 songs of praise and worship...then jumping in for the extra songs being sung. Then you have to play for the choir, THEN you have to play for the Preacher of the hour. Then you have to follow him or her while preaching, THEN you have to play for altar call and anything else following.

Not to mention the mostly aggravating rehearsals that you are expected to endure throughout the week. I happen to play for 5 choirs and why they can't combine some of their rehearsal nights is beyond me.

None of the choirs are really big, and membership has dwindled over the years. If you ask me, they need to make one big choir and call it a day.

In any event, dealing with several personalities, i.e, the folks that have been there since uncle boom boom started the church, those that are in rehearsal and never volunteer to lead ANY songs, the ones who are bossy and want to tell you what to do in each and every rehearsal, those who think that they sing better than all the angels and need a certain type of audience to even attempt to lead a song, those who don't know parts and have no harmony, but want to throw everyone else off because they know everything there is to know about singing which is NOTHING...

and some of you have the unmitigated gall to say that we are paid too much?

No one...and hear me well...NO ONE is going to put up with all this foolishness for nothing.

I have been playing for 30 years and I have seen it all. Trust and believe.

Yes, I have had occasions where some have attempted to short change me after we had already agreed on a certain amount. No biggie...it was handled and those folks who I report to when need be, know don't try it.

Pastors, Deacons, Trustees, get over it...this is what we do. If you have a good musician, you have to pay the good musician. You all want a lot and don't want to give anything. I hate to go there, but folks of the OTHER persuasion don't give their musicians a hard time..ONLY us. Why is that?

If you can't afford a musician, PLAY tracks period. Thereby you don't have to get on this blog and gripe that musicians are getting too much money. If you can't afford the musician, then tell the musician UP FRONT, we can't afford you. Don't waste the musician's time and your time by trying to solidify a working relationship only to have the bottom fall out when you start moaning and groaning that they are getting too much. Leave it where it's at and play a track.

A couple of months ago I played for a reputable church here which is known worldwide. When I went to play for this service after being asked repeatedly, I was shocked by the dwindle in membership. Nonetheless, I did show up for an impromptu rehearsal, but none of the choir members were there that night due to a miscommunication. On Sunday, I showed up for service and the choir was in full attendance. The directress came up to me and simply quoted to me what they wanted to sing. I then started playing it and the choir blew the roof off the church.

After service, the pastor said, "You all must have had a great rehearsal" I then told him, we never rehearsed. That was the first time I played with your choir.

In any event, after the choir sung and we did about 50 other things it seemed that day, and I played very hard that day...the drummer was actually tired. When it got time to pass the envelope to me after service, there was a problem.

Although I was asked prior what my requirements were, which were not ridiculous, but very fair, no one alerted to me that this might be a problem. I was then asked to meet with the pastor in his study. He then asked if I wanted that amount that day. I told him, uh, yes, this is what was mentioned before Sunday and I asked that if this was going to be a problem, someone should call me before Sunday before I showed up.

In any event, i was asked to wait outside of the study and within 5 minutes, the full amount was there in cash.

I really hate these type of situations and I really felt as though if they had to ask, then they couldn't afford me.

The particulars were already set out there, but I guess they thought they could give me less. I was already as low as possible and I am a seasoned musician. I am old school and I can roll with the punches.

One of the members called me prior to my returning the next month for just that one Sunday and said that they found some young musicians who could be with them full time, since I wasn't available full time. They then said, thank you for helping us.

Well of course, one would see this as the handwriting on the wall. A. We can't afford you. B. We found young musicians who will play for nothing...


Guess what, I was the guest musician for a wedding the following month and one of the members from that church was at the wedding. The ENTIRE duration of the reception he hounded me to return to their church. He said, we are aware of your salary and it doesn't matter. Will you please consider returning to our church and being our musician? We had a meeting and the entire church wants you as the musician. Please say yes... Well I said No. And I will let you know if I change my mind.

Will someone please tell me what happened to the young musicians who could play full time and were so great?

Churches, you get what you pay for. If you have a bad musician or one not dedicated, you have the full right to give him or her the boot. If you have quality...treasure it because we are very rare.

.The Lord has been very good to me and blesses me before I even hit a note...but this is what us musicians do. I am not a member of the church I play for and will never join it. I am simply an employee with a decent working relationship with the pastor and members. I keep it very professional and that is how it's been for 7 years. I have an excellent reputation in the city and plan to keep it that way.

We are MUSICIANS and not MAGICIANS. We can only work with the mold that is given to us. Yes, I am known to enhance a service and I expect to be compensated

[DR.Marietta Brown]

Brother Davis, We welcome your comments. If you want us to continue the dialog invite your friends to comment on this topic. Be blessed.