Is it too easy to get ordained in many of our churches?

[Mark H. Stevens, Th.D]

Many of today's most prominent preachers would be labeled heretics hundreds of years ago because MOST clergymen were devout Theologians and serious students of scripture. Today ordination papers and licenses are given to anyone that says they are called to preach. I agree that being Spirit-filled and called is the first priority of being a preacher, but ALSO there has to be training…SERIOUS TRAINING! A lack of understanding of just the basic Bible doctrines of the faith can lead to the types of abuses I am talking about. Martin Luther was able to stand up to the lies of Rome because he was filled with the knowledge of the truth. I am a Pentecostal preacher, I believe in the Charismatic Gifts of the Spirit, but that doesn't negate the fact that we must have a scholarly approach to the scriptures and its teachings.

[A.W. Bowman]

Mark, as usual you have identified a central religious issue. We are all called to preach the good news – even the testimony of our hope. Even to 'rightly dividing the word of truth'. Yet, many have recognized that the aura of a formal religious education is important, so they have enlisted the aid of a diploma mill to give them that status.

Others, like myself, have struggled for decades in the educational arena through the trials of money, time, energy, and relationships. I often use as an example of diligent pursuit of a goal as being almost important as reaching the goal its self. For example, the question, “how long does it take to earn an accredited four year degree?” Answer: It took me 23 years. What did I get the degree in? Business Administration. What was I doing when I earned the diploma? I was working for the California Institute of Technology (CALTECH) at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) as a Mission Controller (Flt. Dir.) for NASA's Voyager Program (dual spacecraft mission to the outer planets). Did the business degree ever contribute to my engineering management carrier? Answer: Yes, in combining my engineering background with the necessary attributes required to write effective technical proposals.

Question: What do all of that secular stuff have to do with being educated and trained in spiritual callings? Answer: Everything!

Regardless of calling, gifting, or talents, even as the prophets of old, they require training. It matters not if was a John the Baptist of an apostolic called Saul. Time and training, either at the hand of a human teacher, a spirit one or both. John lived with his father, a priest. Saul (Paul) was trained at the feet of a great teacher, and both were further instructed by the Holy Spirit. Those we despise the price of training (education), are looking for a short cut to success. While the apostles were thought to be 'uneducated', that is, without a Yeshiva education, that attitude changed when in the Sanhedrin noticed that these men had been in the company of (trained by) the Nazarene Rabbi, Jesus. That qualified them as 'educated'.

For myself, after 35 years of walking with our Lord and studying out of books, tapes, articles, one-on-one seminars, on-line study groups and schools, and with the additional tutoring of the Holy Spirit, I have taken upon myself the spiritual mantel of Serious Student of the Word of God.

The scriptures instruct us all to be able to teach. To teach the fundemental doctrines of our faith. Even so, a new convert has to be taught these basic things. A more mature individual can take on a greater degree of responsibility, but even that has to be limited. However, there is also the position of teacher, i.e., the one who is called to teach the teachers. Of this calling, let there be few masters (teachers), for their judgment shall be more strict. It is to these few that the task falls for the deep study the word, at its very roots in its original languages and within the context of its originating cultures, religion and history, and then interpreting that knowledge (information) into current societal applications. It is at this point that those who have simply acquired a form of knowledge and those who are called as teachers are separated.

If one does not understand the scriptures from the world view of its authors – as God intended them to be understood, then even while the word of God (even in a translated form) is still able to save and to protect. Even so, it yet remains dull in its polish. There is little luster to its use, and the skilled technique required in it wielding is too often without it full effectiveness.

A paper mill education is like a paper mill spirituality. It gives the illusion of earned accomplishments (by dedication and effort focused towards a goal), while in reality it only masks a deceitful heart.

[A.W. Bowman]

Sorry -

The sentence that reads, "Those we despise the price of training (education), are looking for a short cut to success." Should have read, "Those who despise paying the price of ..."

[Evangelist Altha Fugett]

Well I can only speak for my church, it's NOT easy, you first have to prove yourself worthy, not that works is the only thing that is relevent, but by precept and example you are percieved as a disciple of Christ. Understanding the Word of God and living the Word of God are two different things. There has to be a conversion in ones life.

For myself and many others I know of this was a calling that I never wanted, BUT GOD! now I am glad that I am one of them today, that dullness that you percieve is the lack of the anointing of Holy Spirit. There is a difference between joy and happiness, happiness is the result of circumstances and comes and goes, but when one has joy, the strength of the Lord, the anointing is always present and is visible and audible in an individual. There is a difference between holy and unholy.

[A.W. Bowman]

Can I join too? Please? May I? Can I join? Ah, come on, please? I want to join! I NEED to join!

LOLOL

Even so, thanks brother, truly, you do me honer.

[A.W. Bowman]

Just leave your wallet, check book, credit cards and cash in the offering plate. If you over paid, sometime or another we will mail you a refund.

Hey! Sounds good to me! LOLOL

The truth? I think our brother Luckett was going to make it a free society for everyone except me. I'll most likely have to pay him before he will actually use my name! -sigh-

[Mark H. Stevens, Th.D]

The problem is on both ends of the spectrum, we have people getting ordained because they can "whoop" and stir up the congregation and some that get ordained because they recieved thier M.Div. I think both cases are WRONG, Before you give a man or woman credentials you need to know FIRST if they are called at all. Especially in the office of Pastor! A pastor is responsible for feeding sheep (The Word), too often especially in Pentecostal churches (I am Pentecostal) we give papers to anyone that can whoop and moan, we need to make sure that man or woman can rightly divide the Word and TEACH a congregation, making disciples (students of the Word) is a Pastors PRIMARY job!

[Min. Jackson]

I would say that it is pretty easy to get ordained these days. There are some that ordain people online that they've never met. A crook can get an ordination these days without ever setting foot in a church building or proving anything. This is sad but true.

[Evangelist Altha Fugett]

Well the biblical way is that first your calling is prophecied to you,as David's, Joseph's and many others, this again is my problem with home churches, I hate to bring it up because of the heavy opposition, but when the five fold ministry is not represented and operating ones grow into a false maturity, and send forth these renegades.

I am Pentecostal as well, and when our church in our area gives papers, it's to those who have been faithful, and live a lifestyle of holiness and obeiance to God's Word. When ones are not getting the ministry from all five they look for something more and self proclaimed themselves this and that before they learn the spiritual things that time teaches that Rev. Luckett speaks of. It doesn't take fifty years but it does take a mind of servitude as Christ had.

[A.W. Bowman]

As usual sister, you're right, i.e. it doesn't (necessarily) take fifty years to become a 'minister'. However, for slow learners, such as myself, it took 35+ years just to get the concept right! LOLOL Now comes the hard part . . . . . .

Kidding aside - while I am an advocate of home based churches, I agree with your concern about the apparent lack of strong spiritual oversight for many of the scattered home assemblies, even if such oversight is not continually required or resident. Actually, I think the Quakers have a better grasp on church organization and ministry than most other Christian groups.

[Min. Jackson]

You know I understand where you are coming from Evangelist. I think that many today in our churches are there because they were placed there by ambition and not by God. Our churches are filled with Prophets, Evangelist, Pastors/Bishops, Teachers and Apostles that are clearly in the flesh 24/7 and not an ounce of Holy Ghost, yet they want to lead God's flock. Most church leaders are not good servants but they want the sheep to follow blindly as they lead them into darkness.

I hate to say it but when you look at the religious world, it is a complete and total mess from building to building and pastor to pastor because it is too easy to get ordained. You mentioned home church, in which I don't know how this fits into the discussion, but I can certainly see why so many walk away from some of these churches and become renegades. I thank God for the churches that do hold up the blood stained banner but it's way too many that don't. We need to look a lot closer at those being ordained in churches. The C.O.G.I.C. and Catholic church scandals is proof of that and I'm a member saying this.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

I TOTALLY disagree with you. You make the Church totally out of order, when in fact, it is coming back to the order that GOD ordained for it. with the influx of Apostles, Bishops, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors Teachers, Deacons, Missionaries, and Chaplains, the Body of Christ is growing much stronger daily. You undermind the power and the influence of GOD by saying erroneous things like:

"Most church leaders are not good servants but they want the sheep to follow blindly as they lead them into darkness."

"Our churches are filled with Prophets, Evangelist, Pastors/Bishops, Teachers and Apostles that are clearly in the flesh 24/7 and not an ounce of Holy Ghost, yet they want to lead God's flock."

You make it sound like we are going backward in power, when we are actually going forward. Such is disrespectful to GOD for not recognizing the move of the HOLY SPIRIT.

[Mark H. Stevens, Th.D]

I wish our people would realize that "power" comes by surrendering to the will of God and NOT the title you have...in my opinion there are TOO MANY "Apostles" and "Bishops" pontificating and looking for men's praises!