Can We Eat Pork, Shellfish, And All Torah Forbidden Foods Under The New Testament?

[James Pierce]

Anyone?

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

The Torah is in the New Covenant contract.. just look at the words from Yah's own mouth(Jeremiaj 31:31-34). Do you believe the words of Yah?

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

The Torah was NOT the new covenant contract! The Torah is the Law of Moses, and Moses was the mediator of the old covenant.

[Zealot X]

Trevor, Torah simply means law or teachings. So to say that the Torah is the law of a specific person is meaningless. Moses is the one who delivered Torah (the law). But the source of that law was YHWH. And this same source remains the same. Again, a covenant is not a law. You are getting your terminology confused. A covenant is a contract. The old covenant had to parts to it. On one side it was what YHWH would do. On the other side there was what Yisra'el would do. No other nation could claim that YHWH was their elohim (G-d).

YHWH made a contract to be their elohim. They're duty was to keep the law. But the covenant was the actual agreement between the two parties. A mediator is someone who mediates between two parties. He mediates an agreement between them. The old covenant was an "old agreement". YHWH never said they didn't have to keep his law. He said he was going to write it on their hearts.

Jeremiah 31:33 - But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith YHWH, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their G-d, and they shall be my people.

Now, this is the prophesy that is fulfilled in the NT by the New Covenant. I'm sure we can both agree on this point at the very least. Jeremiah 31 tells us about the new covenant. Now, who is the new covenant made with? Here it clearly says "with the house of Israel". So where is the concept that there is some new covenant made with the gentiles when they never even had an old covenant? I'm saying this so that you do not drink the punch of Replacement Theology; the idea that Israel, as a people, were discarded and the gentiles got their own law. That is false. Clearly, YHWH would have known such a thing in advance. So that's point number one. The only way someone has inclusion into this new covenant is by inclusion into the house of Israel. And for that see Romans 11. But aside from that,

Exodus 12:49 - One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Numbers 15:16 - One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

Clearly, from the above scriptures we can see that YHWH was not interested in favoritism or having different nations doing different things. Those who were accepted into the congregation (of Yisra'el) were under its law. There was extra steps they had to take in order to take part in the passover but it was assumed that they had to take part and therefore had to be circumcised. This became part of the problem Paul went through. And because he went by the LAW he gave them an alternative to passover because they couldn't participate. Hence, Communion. What Yeshua kept was the passover and we know he expected it to continue after his death because he said "do this in rememberance of me" so every time they came together after he was gone (because the law would still be in effect) they were to remember him as the passover lamb.

But getting back to the law... He said I will put MY LAW in their inward parts. Where do you read that this will be a new law? There is nothing about gentiles here and there is nothing about a new law for gentiles. And Paul was not the leader of the congregation. That was James. Did James receive some new law for the nation of Yisra'el? Of course not. There is no new law. The prophecy specifies a new CONTRACT only.

shalom

[Zealot X]

I respectfully disagree. There is no reason to repeat the entire law because there was never any change to it.

Here's what Paul said

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

So if the measure is what Paul says and only what Paul says above then there is no prohibition on having false gods, worshipping idols, taking YHWH's name in vain, etc. It's not just the sabbath that is missing. The first 4 commandments are missing. Why is that? Well it should be evident that the context of this is that Paul is talking about how they were to interact with each other, including the "powers that be". His purpose was not to define what the law is otherwise he would be very much in error if we compare his words to Yeshua's.

Mark 12
29 And Yeshua answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; YHWH our G-d is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love YHWH thy G-d with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

According to Yeshua the law (that existed even then) was centered around loving G-d and loving each other. Paul leaves out loving G-d and he leaves out all the specifics because his context is different. Yeshua, by quoting Deuteronomy is not defining a new law devoid of the 10 commandments. He's actually quoting the same law. This was what he said to include everything; a much better idea then running off the entire list. So if the law, even back in Deuteronomy, could be condensed in a core principle then the same can be said for what Paul's saying in the NT. Paul is a pharisee and a keeper of the law. He knows how many laws there are and doesn't need to relist them all. He's including them by saying love.

Love for YHWH includes all the laws he asked us to do for him. For example, the sabbath was kept to remember Creation and the creator. It was a way that we honor G-d as our Creator and take time out to remember him. But why do we do this? Is it just because the law says so? No, we should WANT to honor him because we love him. Love encompasses all the laws he told us to do for him and all the laws he told us to do for each other.

shalom

[James Pierce]

Anthony,

The Sabbath is to kept for 2 reasons.. The FIRST reason is because Yah rested, and the second reason is because He led Israel out of Egypt. Read Hebrews 4:9 in Greek.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

The LORD's Day (Sunday) is kept for multiple reasons:

-The LORD justified us by His resurrection from the dead
-JESUS is the first-fruit of the harvest
-JESUS is the first born of the dead
-JESUS commanded those who rose with Him to continue a new work for the Father, for Sunday is the beginning of the work week

The Sabbath was given to Israel ONLY. NO other nation was given the Sabbath as a day of worship, because NO OTHER NATION was liberated from Egypt. However, all believers in the Law of Moses were to adhere to it. Likewise, all believers on Christ are to now adhere to the LORD's Day. This is not a new Sabbath, this a new day of work and deification. This is of the new covenant, as the Sabbath is of the Torah. Two TOTALLY different covenants!

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

Israel is the Church.

Acts 7:37-39 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us: To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,

Numbers 21:4-6 And they journeyed from mount Hor by the way of the Red sea, to compass the land of Edom: and the soul of the people was much discouraged because of the way. And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread. And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

The Sabbath was the only day that was declared holy/set apart. Sunday was never declared holy/set apart by Yah. You know that, brother. I agree with you in that the Sabbath was given to Israel only. Guess what though... does scripture say you're grafted into the Church, or you're grafted into ISRAEL? if you're grafted into the Gentile church, then yes, the Sabbath does not matter, and you can rest on any day you want. If you're grafted into Israel, as Romans 11 says, then you are commanded to keep the Sabbath that was given to Israel.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

You make a very strong point with that statement. True, we are grafted into Israel. However, when speaking of the first-fruits, the first day of the week is mentioned. When speaking of the resurrection, the first day of the week is mentioned. This is mentioned both in O.T. and N.T.

We are not called to rest now, but to work for the Kingdom. That is exactly why we are not calling Sunday the Sabbath. The rest for us was in the redemption of Christ JESUS. we are now dead to the old contract by the death of Christ, and alive to work in the Kingdom by the resurrection. The time that is now holy for us is the work, not the rest.

[James Pierce]

Trevor,

Actually that has nothing to do with Shabbat my brother. I hope this time around we can actually reason together without condemning :). But umm. First fruits does not really have anything to do with Shabbat. Exodus 12:49 shows us that there is only 1 Torah for both the Hebrew and the Goyim(Gentile). We are grafted into Israel, therefore, are under and commanded to keep the Torah that was given to Israel. Because from the Torah to the Prophets, Yah is coming back for Israel, despite the Churche's attempt to replace her.

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

On the contrary! First fruits DOES have alot to do with it! All the events of the OT were a foreshadow of things to come in CHRIST JESUS.

[Hezekiah Ben Israel]

Will you admit man instituted your Sunday rest, and it is not of God?