The Trinity is Bibical

[Rev. Derek Joshua E'Lon]

Is The Trinity Biblical?
From the Christian Research Institute
www.equip.org
The Trinity is a basic doctrine of orthodox Christianity. Yet the word "Trinity" is not found anywhere in the Bible. Is the doctrine of the Trinity really biblical?
The doctrine of the Trinity says that there is one All Mighty One (God) who exists eternally as three distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I can assure you that the elements of this doctrine are all taken directly from the Bible.
The first plank of the Trinitarian platform is that there is only one All Mighty One (God). The Bible could not be more explicit on this point, which it states explicitly about two dozen times. In Isaiah 44:8 Yahweh (The LORD) says that even He does not know of any other (mighty ones)gods!
Yahshua (Jesus) often spoke of the All Mighty One (God) as His Father, and the apostles frequently spoke of "the Almighty One (God) the Father." But the New Testament also insists that Yahshua (Jesus) is The Almighty One (God). For example, Thomas acknowledged Yahshua (Jesus) as, "My Lord(master) and my Almighty One (God)" (John 20:28), and both Peter and Paul spoke of Yahshua (Jesus) as "our All Mighty One (God) and Savior" (2 Pet. 1:1; Tit. 2:13). Yet the New Testament also makes the distinction between the Father and the Son as two very different persons. In fact they tell us that they love one another, speak to each other, and seek to glorify each other (e.g., John 17: 1-26).
The Old Testament refers often to the Holy Spirit as The Almighty One (God) at work in the world, without distinction from the Father. But Yahshua (Jesus) in John 14 to 16 explained that this Holy Spirit would be sent by the Father at the Messiah’s (Christ's) request. The Holy Spirit would teach and guide the disciples, not speaking on His own initiative, but speaking on the Messiah’s 9Christ's) behalf and glorifying The messiah (Christ). Thus, the Holy Spirit is revealed by The Messiah (Christ) to be a third person distinct from the Father and distinct from the Son.
In short, the doctrine of the Trinity is completely and totally biblical, and it is essential that all the Followers of the Messiah Yahshua (Christians) give assent to this doctrine.

[Caral]

Bro. Germain

The Shield of the Trinity or Scutum Fidei is a traditional Christian visual symbol which expresses many aspects of the doctrine of the Trinity, summarizing the first part of the Athanasian Creed in a compact diagram.

The Creed's wording thus excludes not only Sabellianism and Arianism, but the Christological heresies of Nestorianism and Eutychianism. A need for a clear confession against Arianism arose in western Europe when the Ostrogoths and Visigoths, who had Arian beliefs, invaded at the beginning of the 5th century.*

Scutum Fidei diagram was designed to try and let our tiny little pea brains have some understanding of the insurmountable and mysterious God that we have.

So please remember Brother, His ways are Higher than ours, and His thoughts are higher than ours, and please be careful of what you call satanic.

Blessings

*Wiki

[N'ZI Amani Germain]

This diagram above is really designed by people inspired by Satan!

My view seems harsh, but it is true!

Sister Caral, I mean what I say and I say what I mean.

I do insist to say that digram comes from SATAN!

Maybe you do not who I am, but let me tell you that I'm led by the Holy Spirit!

Bro. Germain

[N'ZI Amani Germain]

This diagram above is really designed by people inspired by Satan!

My view seems harsh, but it is true!

Sister Caral, I mean what I say and I say what I mean.

I do insist to say that that digram comes from SATAN!

Maybe you do not know who I am, but let me tell you that I'm led by the Holy Spirit!

Bro. Germain

[Della Morton]

Ok Perfect example why the trinity is False. Let's examine this picture above by Caral! Who over shadowed Mary? The Holy spirit right? Well then why does Jesus call His Father and refer to God as the Father. Isn't the Holy Spirit His Father?

Another Question: If the son is not the Holy Spirit (according to the Trinity Doctrine) When why does the Bible say this: John 14:16-18 (King James Version)

16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Trinitarians stop here taking this scripture out of context and say see two persons! But they fail to read the next two verses explaining what He Meant!

17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

If that's not enough He makes it even MORE
Clearer in this NEXT VERSE!
18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

So Another Words The Holy Spirit is the Comforter and IS Jesus! He said So HIMSELF! He Said I WILL COME TO YOU! Jesus is The Holy Spirit! If your still not convinced than read: Eph.3:16-17 to Confirm this truth. Is Not The Holy Spirit Christ In us THE HOPE OF GLORY?
If he isn't than you need to read your bible again!


Do you Now See How the Trinity Doctrine Contradicts the Bible!?

[Della Morton]

hey Caral. Question if the The father is not the Holy spirit then who is the real Father of Jesus in Matthew 1:18

[Archbishop Trevor 'Elihu' Greene]

The Oneness doctrine states that the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT died on the cross. You may deny this, but by saying that JESUS is the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT as well as the SON, then you are affirming such. The Apostolic Fathers of the Church after the Apostles spoke against such a doctrine simply because the Apostles didn't teach a Oneness doctrine.


Bishop Ignatius of Antioch (disciple of Apostle John)

"For they speak of Christ, not that they may preach Christ, but that they may reject Christ; and they speak of the law, not that they may establish the law, but that they may proclaim things contrary to it. For they alienate Christ from the Father, and the law from Christ. They also calumniate His being born of the Virgin; they are ashamed of His cross; they deny His passion; and they do not believe His resurrection. They introduce God as a Being unknown; they suppose Christ to be unbegotten; and as to the Spirit, they do not admit that He exists. Some of them say that the Son is a mere man, and that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are but the same person, and that the creation is the work of God, not by Christ, but by some other strange power." (Epistle to the Trallians, Ch. VI).

If this is an error, then the error falls upon the teacher (Apostle John) and not the student. If this is true however, then the teacher taught well.


Bishop Polycarp of Smyrna (disciple of, and ordained by Apostle John)

For I trust that ye are well versed in the Sacred Scriptures, and that nothing is hid from you; but to me this privilege is not yet granted. It is declared then in these Scriptures, "Be ye angry, and sin not," and, "Let not the sun go down upon your wrath." Happy is he who remembers this, which I believe to be the case with you. But may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ Himself, who is the Son of God, and our everlasting High Priest, build you up in faith and truth, and in all meekness, gentleness, patience, long-suffering, forbearance, and purity; and may He bestow on you a lot and portion among His saints, and on us with you, and on all that are under heaven, who shall believe in our Lord Jesus Christ, and in His Father, who "raised Him from the dead. Pray for all the saints. Pray also for kings, and potentates, and princes, and for those that persecute and hate you, and for the enemies of the cross, that your fruit may be manifest to all, and that ye may be perfect in Him" [Epistle to the Phillipians, Exhortation To Various Graces, Chapter 12].


Gregory the Wonder-worker was one who spoke out against Sabellianism:

"But some treat the Holy Trinity in an awful manner, when they confidently assert that there are not three persons, and introduce (the idea of) a person devoid of subsistence. Wherefore we clear ourselves of Sabellius, who says that the Father and the Son are the same [Person] . . . We forswear this, because we believe that three persons--namely, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--are declared to possess the one Godhead: for the one divinity showing itself forth according to nature in the Trinity establishes the oneness of the nature" (A Sectional Confession of Faith 8 [A.D. 262]).

"But if they say, 'How can there be three Persons, and how but one Divinity?' we shall make this reply: That there are indeed three persons, inasmuch as there is one person of God the Father, and one of the Lord the Son, and one of the Holy Spirit; and yet that there is but one divinity, inasmuch as . . . there is one substance in the Trinity" (ibid., 14).


Finally, the Apostle of our confession, the LORD JESUS Himself said this:

John 8:15-18

"Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: FOR I AM NOT ALONE, but I and the Father that sent me. It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me." (KJV)

How can they not be separate if the FATHER is with the Son and bears witness of the Son? If JESUS is the FATHER, then thats singular and JESUS is either a liar or insane!

[Della Morton]

TREVOR THIS IS HERESY! THIS ARTICLE IS FAR AWAY FROM WHAT WE BELIEVE!
YOU ARE TAKING THE Scriptures OUT OF CONTEXT! WHY ARE YOU LYING ABOUT (us)ONENESS PEOPLE.
YOU'd Rather Believe THE CATHOLIC CHURCH THE MOTHER OF All HARLOTS THAN THE WORD OF GOD!!

1 Timothy 4:1-2 (King James Version)

1 Timothy 4

1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;


I AM PRAYING FOR YOU TREVOR. You Cannot see The Truth Because 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 (King James Version)

9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

[Rev. Eric Culberson Jr.]

I've been really quiet on this just observing this discussion from the outside (as Im sure many others have) but I just want to chime in on this one statement that I just read notice the bold:

"YOU ARE TAKING THE Scriptures OUT OF CONTEXT! WHY ARE YOU LYING ABOUT (us)ONENESS PEOPLE."



"Us oneness people"!!?
You starting to sound like ya'll a gang. And some wondered what I was talking about when I said where do we draw the line? Got some throwing scripture this way, others throwing scripture that way! And to prove what? Lets be honest who plans on changing there view point after this?

TAKE HEED EVERYBODY!!

2 Tim. 2:23-25 (NLT)
Again I say, don't get involved in foolish, ignorant arguments that only start fights. [24] The Lord's servants must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone. They must be able to teach effectively and be patient with difficult people. [25] They should gently teach those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people's hearts, and they will believe the truth.

And now back to viewing from the sideline!

[Della Morton]

God Is Not The Author Of Confusion Trevor! YOUR COMMENT:How can they not be separate if the FATHER is with the Son and bears witness of the Son? If JESUS is the FATHER, then thats singular and JESUS is either a liar or insane!

MY REPLY IS : Jesus had a dual Nature. WHAT HE WASN"T WAS A Second Person in command in a TRINITY BUT RATHER HE In Fact Was FULLY MAN AND FULLY GOD. So Went Jesus Prayed it was In His Humanity. More examples: So went Jesus slept in the boat it was his humanity because we Know God Never sleeps nor slumbers. Jesus Rebuked the storm in the same boat and said peace be still We Know That was God. He Had a dual Nature. He was both fully God and Fully Man. What Is Insane is that
When you say there is Three Persons in a trinity. Is Simply not Biblical. But I am Not going to waste my breath on you Trevor I KNOW FOR A FACT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DOESN"T BELIEVE THE BIBLE IS THE ONLY SOURCE OF TRUTH! IN fact THEY PRAY TO MARY FOR SALVATION,THEY Believe in another Book other than the bible IN FACT MOST OF THE ENTIRE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS IDOL WORSHIP AND RITUALS THAT ARE NOT BIBLICAL! So I Will Be LEAVING THIS ROOM now.
God Bless You Trevor.

[Caral]

Brother Trevor

Thank you for bring the truth from the great men of our Faith. The essense of the Trinity has been recognised since our Lord walked the earth.

God bless you man of God, for you divide the divine truth rightly.

[Della Morton]

Question:

When Jesus said, "My Father is greater than I" would it not be your position that the "I" there is the uni personal God? It would be my position that the "I" was the Son, a distinct person from the Father. According to your view though that "I" would simply be the human mode of existence of God, for if the "I" actually represented the same divine person as the Father, then it stands to reason that Jesus is saying "I am less then myself." Of course you would want us to understand that Jesus is only referring to His human mode of existence, not His divine mode of existence "beyond the incarnation," yet how can the "I" (the ego) be separated by mode insomuch that Jesus could refer to Himself as an "I" that he is less than?



Answer:

I'll answer your question with a question. You bring up this verse in an attempt to demonstrate that God must be at least two divine persons. If that is what this verse demonstrates, we need to ask how it is that Jesus, who is God the Son incarnate (according to your view), can say the Father is greater than Himself if God the Son and God the Father are coequal? Jesus' words must be attributed to the second divine person because there is only one personal subject in Christ from whom all of Christ's acts flow, and that person is the divine person. The obvious answer is that such a statement was possible because of God's assumption of a genuine human consciousness in the incarnation. Even though Jesus' words must be attributed to the divine person, it is understood that the divine person spoke these words from His incarnate existence/consciousness as a genuine human being. In other words, Trinitarians can only make sense of Jesus' words in light of the incarnation of God into a limited human existence. It is understood that such speech is rooted in God's genuine humanity. In Trinitarian terms, God the Son--by uniting human nature to His person--willingly accepted all the human limitations that go along with such a nature, so that God the Son could be conscious of Himself as man, think as man, and pray like man, even though the person of Jesus Christ is the divine person Himself.

We ought to question why it is that God the Son prayed in the face of Jesus Christ. After all, it makes little sense for a divine person to pray, and yet Chalcedon rightly requires that the act of prayer be attributed to the divine person. We understand that the action of prayer, initiated by the divine person and mediated and expressed through the attributes of the human nature, is due to the genuineness of God's human existence. When the divine person became man, taking upon Himself human attributes, He acquired the ability/need to pray even though as God He has no need of prayer. The divine person would never need to pray, and indeed never prayed apart from His incarnate existence as man. It is obvious, then, that the incarnation allowed God to be conscious of Himself in a new manner, distinct from His normal divine manner of consciousness. This consciousness was so distinct from His normal divine manner of consciousness that He could pray to God and distinguish Himself from God, even though He was God Himself in the flesh. Ultimately, God the Son's new manner of existence as man, and His new consciousness as man was so distinct from His normal divine manner of consciousness that God the Son incarnate could distinguish Himself from Himself, and pray to God as if He was not God.

I say all of that to say that if Jesus' statement means that there are two persons in view, then why not conclude that the second person is inferior to the first? You would say that the second person is not inferior at all in His divine essence; He is only inferior in the particular mode of existence from which He spoke (human). I agree that it is the mode of existence from which the divine person spoke that would explain the inferiority inherent to Jesus' statement. So we would agree thus far. What we do not agree on is whether or not the distinction between the 'I' of Jesus and the 'him' of the Father requires that two distinct persons be in view. You argue that it does, whereas I argue that while it could be due to that fact, in need not be. When I look at all of the Scriptural data I have good reason to doubt that Jesus' statement should be interpreted as an indication of multiple divine persons.

You have asked me whether or not Jesus' statement, "my Father is greater than I," must not be interpreted to mean that Jesus and the Father are two distinct divine persons. You conclude that the reference to "Father" and "I" must indicate two distinct persons. In turn I ask you When Jesus said "I will ascend to your God and to my God" do the distinct referents, "God" and "my," mean that Jesus and God are two distinct persons-that Jesus is a human person, rather than the divine person incarnate? If the conscious self in Christ is the divine person, how can the divine person distinguish Himself from Himself to say that He, the divine person, will ascend to God when He is God? Is He going to ascend to Himself? If the use of two distinct nouns/pronouns in this case does not indicate that two persons are in view (one who is divine and one who is not), then we must not assume that the two distinct nouns/pronouns in the former case must indicate that two divine persons are in view.

If God's human consciousness is so distinct from His normal divine consciousness that He can distinguish Himself from Himself (God), making it appear as though Jesus and God are two distinct persons (one human and one divine), how is this phenomenon any different than what we find Jesus saying in the passage you mention? I do not see any fundamental difference. Just as Jesus statement that He was going to ascend to His God did not mean that Jesus was not God, or that Jesus is a distinct person from the Triune God, likewise Jesus' statement that the Father was greater than He does not mean that there are two divine persons in view. The Oneness view is entirely consistent with this passage.The Trinity Is Simply Not Biblical!

[Della Morton]

Question:

I believe the Oneness doctrine to be a very serious error. At its heart is a denial of the deity of Christ. If you deny the distinctness of the Son from the Father then you deny Jesus. Oneness theology is a most crafty and subtle deception which has denied the real Jesus, and dishonored God's Son.



Answer:

You have said, "At its [Oneness doctrine] heart is a denial of the deity of Christ. If you deny the distinctness of the Son from the Father then you deny Jesus." Let me respond.

Why would you think that Oneness people deny the deity of Christ? Oneness people insist on the full deity of Christ. Where Trinitarians and Oneness differ is not in the fact that one confesses the full deity of Christ whereas the other does not, but whether or not the eternal deity Christ is the same personal deity as the Father, or a distinct person in the Godhead; whether the deity of Christ is a distinct eternal personality in the Godhead from the Father, or whether His deity is that of the Father, but incarnated in flesh.

You assume we deny the distinctions between the Father and Son. We do not. We just place them in a different place and time than you. The distinction between the Father and Son is absolutely essential in Oneness theology. The distinction, however, is not in distinct eternal persons in the Godhead, but between God beyond the incarnation, and God in the incarnation. When God assumed a human existence, with a complete human mind, psyche, will, emotions, etc., this existence was in distinction to His continued transcendent existence beyond the incarnation. As a genuine human being, Jesus is distinct from the Father; distinct because of His humanity, not because He is a second divine person in the Godhead.

While we confess that the deity of the Son of God preexisted the incarnation, we do not see that preexisting deity as a second person known as the "Son" in contradistinction to Father/Spirit, but rather as the one uni-personal God of the OT, YHWH.

We only see one person in the Godhead, YHWH. He is uni-personal, not tri-personal. That one uni-personal God became a man, not the second person of a tri-personal God. In Oneness theology the deity of the Son (humanity and deity) is known as YHWH before the incarnation, and "Son" only after the incarnation, to distinguish God's new existence as a human being (the God-man) from God's continued existence beyond humanity (Father). In the incarnation "Son" and "Father" are used to describe the relationship between God transcendent and God immanent in flesh.

The fact that we deny the notion that the deity of the Son is a distinct person in the Godhead cannot be interpreted to mean that we deny Christ's deity, or that we make Christ out to be less than God. In fact, our position that the deity of the Father and the deity of the Son is the same person makes defending the deity of the Son simple, because it is the same personal deity in each case, and therefore the same identity and properties. It is the Trinitarian view which has to go to great lengths to prove that Jesus' deity is that of YHWH just like the Father, because Trinitarian theology makes the Son's deity a distinct deity from the Father. Trinitarians have to first demonstrate that the Son is coequal, coeternal, and consubstantial with the Father before they can declare/demonstrate that the Son's deity is YHWH. Oneness theology identifies the deity of the Son with the deity of the Father, therefore, the identity of the Father automatically proves that the deity of the Son is also YHWH and eternal.

We identify the deity of the Son as the uni-personal God, YHWH, while you identify Christ's pre-existing deity as "God the Son," the second person of the Trinity. We believe it was the eternal uni-personal God who became flesh while you believe it was the second person of a tri-personal God that became flesh. Either way, we have the same concept as far as Christ's eternal deity is concerned, so it cannot be said that we deny Christ's deity.

Also, how is denying the distinct personal deity of the Son from the Father a denial of Jesus? This has no bearing on the eternal nature of the deity of the Son. Of course we don't believe that Christ's deity is a distinct person in the Godhead, but we do believe His deity is eternal because we identify His deity with the Father.

You have confused the issue of whether or not Oneness will confess that Christ's eternal pre-existing deity is a distinct, second distinct person in the triune Godhead, or whether or not his eternal pre-existing deity is the same as the Father, with the issue of whether or not we believe Christ's deity is God at all. You seem to believe that if one denies that Jesus' deity is a distinct personal deity from the Father that they must not believe in Jesus' deity, but such falsely assumes that Trinitarianism is the only way to maintain Christ's ontological and consubstantial deity with the Father. It is not. Oneness is more firm in its affirmation than is Trinitarianism in this respect because we do divide up the Godhead into distinct persons, but affirm one personal God who Himself became a man. Therefore Christ's deity is the deity of the Father incarnated in flesh, with no distinction, and thus no need to compare one person to another to see if they share the same essence.

So making the issue out to be whether or not one calls Christ's eternal, preexisting deity as "Son," viewing Him as a distinct person from the Father, has no logical correlation to whether or not one sees Christ's deity as the one God in His fullness, eternal, and uncreated. You cannot dismiss this fact simply because we do not see Christ's deity as a second person in the Godhead.